Looking for Watertown (A line) info

Anyone have any info on the A line? I've seen the pictures from nycsubway, and read the A Line Wikipedia entry.. I was wondering if theres anything else out there?


Also.. i have a video from STM with some great trolley footage in Watertown..

1. Click "Search" at the top.
2. In the text box next to "Search for Keywords", type in "A Watertown Line"
3. Select "Search for all terms"
4. Next to "Forum", click the drop-down menu and find "MBTA Rail Operations"
5. Click "Search"
6. Knock yourself out, but not literally. Just metaphoricly.

There is just way too much information about the Watertown Line to post. You have to dig deep using the Search button.

I'll do the work for you!
Here's the best places to look:
http://members.aol.com/netransit/mainarts.html I think 2 of the articles have stuff, AIRC... Also check out the "Old MBTA Maps" link http://members.aol.com/ssejce/maps/maps.html , one of them has the A Line on it.

Next,
Since Watertown was pre-LRV era, there's plenty of photos in here (but you have to look through it a little to find them all)
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/boston/hist-pcc.html

Finally, here's what I know, since I lived right off of Washington St. in Brighton as a kid in the 80s:
The line last saw revenue service in the late 60's, sometime between 67 and 69 when it was "temporarily suspended." However, the wires and tracks remained active until sometime in the 90's. That's because the MBTA facility that is used for the Trackless Trolleys was also used for PCC's and LRV's. During the 80's, the (T) used it for rebuilding Mattapan Dallas-Builds and some of the Arborway fleet. Trains were only run on the track overnight. I never saw them but always heard them (save for a BEry fan trip in the early 80's). There was a controversy in later years becuase some felt that the tracks caused driving hazards. The (T) went back and fourth but eventually coverd the tracks up, took down the catanery wire, and on Brighton Ave after the Packards corner, there is a nice little Island with street lamps where the tracks and wire standards used to be.

That should pretty much cover it.

When the debate went as to whether to bring back the A line or not, did anyone ever bring an idea to the T of only restoring the A line only to Oak Square? The A line didn't necessarily need to go all the way out to Watertown Sq, did the T not get that? The service really only needed to go as far as Oak Square because all of the area up to Oak Sq is where the service was really needed and ridership is the heaviest.

rhodiecub2 wrote:When the debate went as to whether to bring back the A line or not, did anyone ever bring an idea to the T of only restoring the A line only to Oak Square? The A line didn't necessarily need to go all the way out to Watertown Sq, did the T not get that? The service really only needed to go as far as Oak Square because all of the area up to Oak Sq is where the service was really needed and ridership is the heaviest.

Yes...many times. That was actually a very serious proposal in the 1980's that very nearly got the line reactivated at a time when political pressure in Brighton was highest in favor. The A would've turned at Oak Square loop, with the 71 TT being extended from Watertown to Oak Square as a trade-in for the 57 bus that preserved Newton's one-transfer ride to the subway (only Red Line instead of Green this time). Newton shot it down anyway, saying they wanted all wires gone (even though they'd just have to string up the 2nd wire in each direction to make it a full go). And that was the end of that.

Brighton generally remained in support of restoration but as more time went by support softened. Too much of the residents overturned to transient students in the last 30 years, and there weren't constant reminders of the old service like the "temporarily suspended" maps that are still up in places for Arborway. And BU and Harvard were pretty negligent in vouching for it...even though both universities probably regret that today. What was really problematic, though, were a couple hyper-militant Brighton Ave. businesses who made disproportionate noise against restoration and who had powerful friends at the city and T who would vouch for them and help throw up roadblocks. Which was a little unfair because it was the storefronts on Brighton a block away from the duplicate B-line who got all pissy about the street aesthetics and their God-given right to double-parked delivery trucks...not the people further up the line who really lost their transit. Forget who the real thorny one was...but that owner actually bullied his way into getting the active one-block pocket track off Packard's Corner ripped up in 2002 and replaced with flagpoles. And that's the only turnout on the B-line from Blandford St. to Chestnut Hill Ave., so thank that guy if you ever get stuck behind a disabled train they can't shove out of the way!

The last restoration lawsuit was defeated in 1994. Before then the line was still live for night non-revenue moves, and a decrepit PCC fleet was maintained at Watertown Yard. The rest of the system still had dual-trolley/pantograph catanery (wasn't changed over until '97-98 in preparation for the Type 8's) so the PCC's would on occasion come into the subway or on the other lines for some overnight runs or tow vehicles back to Watertown Carhouse (including Boeings and Type 7's) for body work.

In '94 Newton immediately paved over all of its tracks and cut all the wires. The rest to Oak Square remained intact but dead (except for the first block of Brighton where the live catanery was for the pocket track) until 1998, when the whole corridor was remodeled and all traces of the line were covered up. With the pocket track going in '02 the only vestiges left are the track switch at Packard's Corner and about 3 feet of A-line track jutting out, plus Watertown Yard which is still full of tracks. Oak Square loop was converted into a park. Unfortunately because the streets, parking, and center median don't even remotely resemble the old configuration it would be very difficult to ever restore service now. Which is a shame because it's been in the 13 years since '94 that the B-line has really choked on its own congestion, the BU/Harvard building boom and population explosion really upped the transit users on that corridor, and Brighton really started to suffer badly from not having rail transit. Except for those problem businesses near Packard's I think if they had to do it over again they probably would've restored just seeing what the area looks like now.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:The rest of the system still had dual-trolley/pantograph catanery (wasn't changed over until '97-98 in preparation for the Type 8's) so the PCC's would on occasion come into the subway or on the other lines for some overnight runs or tow vehicles back to Watertown Carhouse (including Boeings and Type 7's) for body work.

On the Green Line, there was no dual over head left in 1994. 3295 had a pantograph and the Type 5 was a pain to move around! Do you have your dates wrong?

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: What was really problematic, though, were a couple hyper-militant Brighton Ave. businesses who made disproportionate noise against restoration

Seems really asinine because restoring the A line probably would've helped these Brighton Avenue businesses.

Having worked in the Watertown area on the overnight shift about 3 years ago I did notice limited activity around the car barn late at night or early in the morning. I did notice a lage truck parked inside that I would assume was an emergency repair vehicle for either TT's or buses.

Without any trackage into the yard could someone fill me in on what the car barn is used for now?

Thanks for all the replies (minus the negative one). There is alot of scattered A line info on this board, its good to bring it to one thread.

I live near Brighton center and having A line service now would make complete sense, not only for alleviating stress on the B line. Brighton is a much different place, even from 99 when i first moved into town. Brighton ave businesses are revitalizing, Brighton center is opening more stores, and of course the Harvard expansion into lower Allston would effect Brighton.

Combed NYCsubway.org for all the A photos they had. Enjoy.

Watertown Yard PCC's (1970's-1980's):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13606 (<--- 1980 fantrip...note the Flyer TT, the Canadian LRV, and the Boeing idling with its trolley pole up)
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13632
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13633
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13647
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13750
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13763
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13865
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13866
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13871
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14147 (<-- 1989, only 5 years before abandonment...note 5734 is there with a Boeing parked behind it)

Watertown Yard PCC's (revenue-service years):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13769
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13776
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13782
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13787
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13796
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13981
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?32711


Brighton & Harvard Ave.'s (1967 revenue service):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13759 (<-- Note tracks and catanery were still there looking exactly like this until 1998, even though they were dead and abandoned after '94)

Says it's B-line on the caption, but doesn't look like any B stop I know of...must be A because of "Newtonville" sign (1965 revenue service):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13976

Union Square (1976 fantrip):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13678

Oak Square (1976 fantrip):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13685

Newton (1976 fantrip):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13686



Not A-line related, but how 'bout these oddities...

North Cambridge Yard and the "73" (!):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13736
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13749

Braves Field Loop (A/B lines):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13962
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?37141

The "real" F-line (!!!):
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13970

Everett Shops yard:
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14115
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13780

Thank you very much for all the pics F-Line. I really wish the A-Line was still there because I live only a few blocks from the yard. By the way your pic with the Newtonville sign is Newton Corner.


How long did the trip take from Watertown Yard to Kenmore on the trolley?

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: In '94 Newton immediately paved over all of its tracks and cut all the wires. The rest to Oak Square remained intact but dead (except for the first block of Brighton where the live catanery was for the pocket track) until 1998, when the whole corridor was remodeled and all traces of the line were covered up. With the pocket track going in '02 the only vestiges left are the track switch at Packard's Corner and about 3 feet of A-line track jutting out, plus Watertown Yard which is still full of tracks.

It's too bad the T got rid off that pocket track on Brighton Ave. That track could've been used to do short runs up to Packard's Corner on the B line even if the pocket track only went up a couple hundred feet. Having the pocket track for short run B Line trips, could've alleviated the congestion on the B line.

Somewhat off topic, but a few allston/brighton trolley photos found on the allston-brighton history page:

http://www.bahistory.org/PhotosWesternAve.html

rhodiecub2 wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: In '94 Newton immediately paved over all of its tracks and cut all the wires. The rest to Oak Square remained intact but dead (except for the first block of Brighton where the live catanery was for the pocket track) until 1998, when the whole corridor was remodeled and all traces of the line were covered up. With the pocket track going in '02 the only vestiges left are the track switch at Packard's Corner and about 3 feet of A-line track jutting out, plus Watertown Yard which is still full of tracks.

It's too bad the T got rid off that pocket track on Brighton Ave. That track could've been used to do short runs up to Packard's Corner on the B line even if the pocket track only went up a couple hundred feet. Having the pocket track for short run B Line trips, could've alleviated the congestion on the B line.

Would've been very hard to do because it was in the middle of the street and there was no crossover unless you backed up to the inbound side. It really only was a way to temporarily store disabled trains to maintain service headways until they could fetch the disabled train. But given the length of the B and how congested it is already, a turnout was needed to keep service from getting completely hosed by a malfunctioning train. It was convenient to have in the event of a train getting dinged by an auto at one of the grade crossings (frequent enough because BU has extra-stupid drivers enrolled there). Since that always creates horrific backups in service, it was easiest to escort the train out to Brighton Ave., allow the backlog to pass and service to return to normal, then pick an appropriate headway opening to back up and make the slow or push-pull trip to the carhouse.

Like I said, you can thank the obnoxious NIMBY's-from-hell on those first few blocks of Brighton the next time you get stuck behind a disabled train. It's only because those businesses are so close to the B-line anyway that they could raise the stink about street aesthetics with impunity like that. They didn't lose their rail transit like everyone else past Harvard Ave. who isn't a 2-minute walk from the B, and yet the city and T treated those shop owners with an obvious ax grind as spokesmen for the whole corridor. That's the tragic part.


There hasn't been the ability to do short-turns at BU since Braves Field loop was ripped out in the mid-60's ('65-ish?) at BU's request when they were building dorms and re-doing the stadium. Harry Agganis Way had storage tracks of decent length alongside the recently-demolished Armory building that were used daily for peak-hour service reinforcements since it was much closer to downtown than the yards at Watertown/Riverside/Reservoir/Lake St. As a result PCC's would short-turn or enter service at the loop during shift changes or when conditions warranted. Unfortunately the area is too overdeveloped to put back a loop. I'm sure BU's present administration would crave the extra service that brought.

Trully the man you want to meet and see his collection of A line stuff is.... Fred Maloney of Oak Square, Brighton. He lead the charge against the T to keep the line.