LIRR Yard Limits

Every now and then I hear the term "Yard Limits" and I am hoping that someone can explain to me what this means in terms of LIRR operations. I think this is only used in single track territory. An explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ron

Um.... Generally the term "yard limits" is just that. The end / start of a yard area. There are different rules that apply in yard/ road applications.

Yard limits is extention of switching limits in both ABS or MBS territory.
It gives an area where moves can be made without trainorders/Form d's etc by just permission of operator or Dispatcher.
it is usually used in area's near yards or where frequent reverse moves are to be made.
Yardlimits have nothing to do with actual yard.

As Dutch says yard limits don't have anything to do with an actual yard. But here's some other clarifications ....

Regarding to Dutch's correct statement about 'not needing train orders', etc ...an example is that many towers have yard limits to accomplish moves with their area.

But one way in which yard limits does pertain to actual yards is that it defines the area in which a Yardmaster's drill crew can switch or move without being able to file a penalty claim for being used in say road service. For instance the Babylon or Jamaica drill crew can be ordered to bring equipment up to and back from the station without a claim because those moves are considered within their 'yard limit'.

On the LIRR, there is only one purpose for Yard Limits - to allow an extra train to occupy Single Main Track where Rule 251 is in effect (Manual Block), without needing a train order. Permission to occupy the main track within Yard Limits would be that train's authority to occupy the main.

The most used case of this is when a passenger train reaches it's terminal, and sits on the main until it turns. This is why there are Yard Limits at locations where a train terminates in Manual Block territory, such as Riverhead.

Yard Limits may have different uses on other railroads, but on the LIRR, this is it.

Jay

While I agree with you pertaining to the movement without train orders, I certainly used the words 'yard limits' as it pertained to my ability to send drill crews to various locations (from various yards) without penalty claims.

BMC, what your saying is true,but didnt we refer to them as "switching limits" ?

When I was taught the ropes yes, it was called 'switching limits' and let's face it that is really what at least in a Yardmaster/Drill Crew context at least what I was talking about. But over the years as I recall the term got diluted or phased out and was sort of replaced by yard limits.

But yes, if it came down to it ... Jay's, and Dutch's explanation and your use of the correct terminology of 'switching limits' would be the right one and I stand somewhat corrected ... (LOL).

Happy New Year !

Thanks for all the answers everyone. So then Yard Limits are only located in Manual Block territory? And what about situations where trains meet in manual block territory. Are these meeting points usually located within yard limits or do yard limits have nothing to do with the locations where trains meet? I only ask this because I understand there to be several yard limit areas on the Montauk branch like in Southhampton between the east and west siding switches. The same appears to be true for the Bridgehampton and East Hampton sidings. As far as I know, no passenger trains terminate at any of these locations. Could these yard areas be in place because a freight train might terminate there? Thanks again!

Ron

Yes Ron, it is for a Freight which would run extra in manual block territory to be able to occupy the main track and switch out the sidings.also,not sure if the train still runs in summer,but we used to have a passenger train that turned in east hampton on the main.

No, yard limits have nothing to do with meeting area's, Yard limits are used in MBS and ABS territory, where moves normally would require trainorders.
In ABS territory a move against direction would require a trainorder, but in Yard limits the operator or dispatcher only has to give verbal permission.
The move has to be completed and in clear, 5 minutes before the next scheduled train is scheduled to enter the block.

Yard limits are only to facilitate switching without extensive paperwork by both crew and operator and/or dispatcher.

As a tc- driver we did trackwork(brush cutter track car etc.) within yard limits with an just an A-card, verbal permission (from the block operator thru the train dispatcher)and he had to tell you the condition of the block(manual block clear)

Track cars never come under same rules as trains, so for a Track car to be out there it must have paperwork , cause track is taken out of service

Not being in train service by trade I do believe most trains that might use yard limits for switching would be extras(freights,work trains) and might require an A-CARD which is not a train order but still some sort of paper work. Maybe things have changed but we used to work between trains between yard limits with our brushcutter to do work east in single track manual block territory ,because it didnt disturb the track and the dispatcher knew this, we would do this with an a-card and permission but not with out of service form w train order. We had to clear at least five minutes or more before a regular train was to leave ,at that time SK or MY blocks. As you can see it wasnt much time on the main but they would never set up bussing for just brush cutting. And yes track cars are not trains but track cars still use the same rails and track car drivers must be qualified under the same operating rules of the transportation department employees must knew and must be qualified the P.C. on the the section of track you run on.

Trains using yard limits do not need ANY paperwork , just permission.