Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

I wouldn't be surprised if they were all scrapped and i wouldn't blame NJT for doing it, however it would be nice to see at least one preserved, preferably one in better cosmetic shape.

Are we really going into this again Pat? We got HSP46s (MBTA) and ALP46s out there now but no one seems to ask which one is being referred to when someone says just 46. The forum in which you refer to a 44 more or less implies if the ALP44 or E44 is being discussed. I, as well as a bunch of others here call the ALP-44s 44s, because thats what were used to calling them. We arent here to bend over backwards to make you happy by using politically correct wording, were here to discuss railroads, dont like the way we refer to something, deal with it, because youre not the king, and railroad.net is not your kingdom, Now... Back to railroad topics please.

Cosmetically, i would think 4412 is best, because it was most recently repainted, however if you want one thats in better mechanical shape the 4405 4407 and 4409 I believe were selected for ACES because they had major work done. 4405 is my personal favorite.

25Hz wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they were all scrapped and i wouldn't blame NJT for doing it, however it would be nice to see at least one preserved, preferably one in better cosmetic shape.

If they can get value for scrapping them, it would make no sense to preserve any of them unless someone was willing to pay for one.

Beanie, I stand behind my smiley shield which protects me from any internet barbs. It was a joke, along with the 'shipping them to Steamtown' remark. I didn't expect anyone to bend over backwards for me, unless that's what you do when you get a chuckle. And I admit the joke wasn't incredibly funny, but I've read worse things on the web and not gotten spinal injuries.

Herzie, you did not include a smiley on your "set there to keep folks from stealing the tracks" remark. I ask again, do you have any evidence to back yourself up, or was your farfetched statement just a joke?

Patrick Boylan wrote:

beanbag wrote:Not to dragt hings off topic, but maybe it would be a good idea to start a preservation movement for the 44s, petition Transit to save one or two.

But I thought they set them out on the cutoff to prepare for sending them to Steamtown in Scranton

LOL! to steamtown by way of Port Jervis Line?

Patrick Boylan wrote:Beanie, I stand behind my smiley shield which protects me from any internet barbs. It was a joke, along with the 'shipping them to Steamtown' remark. I didn't expect anyone to bend over backwards for me, unless that's what you do when you get a chuckle. And I admit the joke wasn't incredibly funny, but I've read worse things on the web and not gotten spinal injuries.

Herzie, you did not include a smiley on your "set there to keep folks from stealing the tracks" remark. I ask again, do you have any evidence to back yourself up, or was your farfetched statement just a joke?

No...it was funny...

All of it was a joke. I don't see any 44's being preserved from NJT and if they really wanted one SEPTA has one that may be retired via possible incoming ACS-64 piggyback order.

I think what we need to focus on is getting PA and NJ to talk about funding and other details to get this line to a PA terminus. I cannot see NJT doing all this work just to build a line to Columbia......

What of hackettstown to phillipsburg? And the same for high bridge to phillipsburg?

The line needs a clear green light all the way to scranton or else there is little point in NJT to continue putting down tracks past andover.

25Hz wrote:All of it was a joke. I don't see any 44's being preserved from NJT and if they really wanted one SEPTA has one that may be retired via possible incoming ACS-64 piggyback order.

I think what we need to focus on is getting PA and NJ to talk about funding and other details to get this line to a PA terminus. I cannot see NJT doing all this work just to build a line to Columbia......

What of hackettstown to phillipsburg? And the same for high bridge to phillipsburg?

The line needs a clear green light all the way to scranton or else there is little point in NJT to continue putting down tracks past andover.

The steamtown/scranton part was funny, the rest of it was not. Anyways.

The problem with the Scranton bit that I see is the travel time. Its a two hour trip from Hackettstown as it sits now. To get to Scranton from here (im aware the train would split onto the Cut Off before Hackettstown at Port Morris, but just to put in perspective) a car would have basically a straight shot down 80-380, and having done a friday evening trip from here to past Scranton, once you clear the Denville Dover area with traffic, youll basically be flying (relative to the train) the rest of the way there. On a clear of traffic run, you can easily be in Scranton before the train would hit the Cut-Off, forget about Scranton. To The trip would only really be viable in rush periods where alot of 80 is choked up in NJ, and also NJTs west of Dover service already sucks, they need to improve there long before they even think of trying the Scranton cut off. A last problem I see is comfort, I have issues with the NJT seats after sitting for more than two hours. If im taking a trip the length of the proposed Scranton Cut Off trip, It would take alot for me to leave the car at home knowing ill be numb in the legs by the time i get off the train. Im sure my view reflects alot of the casual commuters too. For it to be a viable alternative you would have to run alot of express trains to cut the travel time down, for this to work it would be actually prudent for NJT to run trains that do not make a single stop before the Cut off, kind of like some of the Port Jervis trains, otherwise the commuters will find the car to be way faster. If it takes 3 hours or so by train and two by car not including waiting for the train and delays, youre going to need a schedule with good travel time so the service doesnt get creamed in the long run by people who find the extra time not worth it.

Patrick Boylan wrote:

beanbag wrote:Not to dragt hings off topic, but maybe it would be a good idea to start a preservation movement for the 44s, petition Transit to save one or two.

But I thought they set them out on the cutoff to prepare for sending them to Steamtown in Scranton
And enough with this '44' garbage. They're not E-44's. Do your fingers hurt from needing to type ALP-44?

Get a life. Not all of us are RR "know-it-alls" like you. I come here HOPING to get some information on where/when I may be able to find trains to film and I really don't know/care much about engine types or train symbols.I am not a "foamer" by any means, I just like watching trains.I have friends like you who want to spew out locomotive types and symbols left and right like I'm supposed to know or care what they are. I am more into locations along the "heritage lines" than I am what kind of trains use them. For me it's simple. Passenger or freight. I can break it down to commuter and tourist and local and road freight. Yes, I know the difference between a stack train, TOFC, unit coal, ethanol,grain,garbage, a multi -level auto train. Mixed bag of trailers/stacks/auto racks and even circus trains but don't communicate with me J this or M that or Z this pulled by a Dash 9,10 or 11 or SD70 M,N P or Q or train 223,999, 666 pushed/pulled by ALP 44,45 or 46. It's all wasted on me.
You want to talk RS3's GP9's F3's or GP 40's then I understand that "old" stuff.

How about get a sense of humor? Not only did I put a smiley on my remark, I followed up and explained to beanbag that I was only joking. I'm sorry if my feeble humor attempt offends you so much, but you should be grateful that you don't need to get a life.

Lets take it easy gents. As Pat said, he alrady explained it. Pat, just saying, that kind of humor doesnt translate over a board post, without a way to hear your tone of voice, it looked via text like a more serious jab, and faced with such, people will respond in kind. I would refrain from that type of thing in the future. Especially because quite frankly we have a bunch of internet smarta$$es on here who use the same type of smiley thing to launch a sarcastic attack on other posters, where its not a joke. You see the confusion? Now, to each his own with how they railfan and what they know, if you need or want clarification on a locomotive type, ask for it, dont try the humor, because it will just be soundly rejected. Everyone has their own different ways of railfanning and referring to loco types here, and each posters ways should be respected. Now... please.. lets get back to business here.

Truth be told I'd much rather see an E44 over those stainless steel boxes. No offense, I just started a diet and I am a bit grouchy.
I really wouldn't care what kind of motive power would run on the cutoff again I would just like to see SOMETHING on there before I die (hopefully in 30+ years). Yet in reality, I don't hold out much hope.

beanbag wrote:

25Hz wrote:All of it was a joke. I don't see any 44's being preserved from NJT and if they really wanted one SEPTA has one that may be retired via possible incoming ACS-64 piggyback order.

I think what we need to focus on is getting PA and NJ to talk about funding and other details to get this line to a PA terminus. I cannot see NJT doing all this work just to build a line to Columbia......

What of hackettstown to phillipsburg? And the same for high bridge to phillipsburg?

The line needs a clear green light all the way to scranton or else there is little point in NJT to continue putting down tracks past andover.

The steamtown/scranton part was funny, the rest of it was not. Anyways.

The problem with the Scranton bit that I see is the travel time. Its a two hour trip from Hackettstown as it sits now. To get to Scranton from here (im aware the train would split onto the Cut Off before Hackettstown at Port Morris, but just to put in perspective) a car would have basically a straight shot down 80-380, and having done a friday evening trip from here to past Scranton, once you clear the Denville Dover area with traffic, youll basically be flying (relative to the train) the rest of the way there. On a clear of traffic run, you can easily be in Scranton before the train would hit the Cut-Off, forget about Scranton. To The trip would only really be viable in rush periods where alot of 80 is choked up in NJ, and also NJTs west of Dover service already sucks, they need to improve there long before they even think of trying the Scranton cut off. A last problem I see is comfort, I have issues with the NJT seats after sitting for more than two hours. If im taking a trip the length of the proposed Scranton Cut Off trip, It would take alot for me to leave the car at home knowing ill be numb in the legs by the time i get off the train. Im sure my view reflects alot of the casual commuters too. For it to be a viable alternative you would have to run alot of express trains to cut the travel time down, for this to work it would be actually prudent for NJT to run trains that do not make a single stop before the Cut off, kind of like some of the Port Jervis trains, otherwise the commuters will find the car to be way faster. If it takes 3 hours or so by train and two by car not including waiting for the train and delays, youre going to need a schedule with good travel time so the service doesnt get creamed in the long run by people who find the extra time not worth it.

FYI, 1) there are a lot of people that commute from Wilkes-Barre\Scranton area to NYC everyday for work (why I don’t know but they do.), from the Pocono many many more. Martz has there garage about 4 blocks behind my house in Wilkes-Barre. They alone run around 99 buses into the city every work day. Even with internet on the buses, I’d take a train seat over a bus seat any day!! So sorry I disagree with you on comfort. With all the stops with the bus, the train is projected only 15 mins longer from Scranton. The other problem is that some of the bus lines (I believe Martz is one) don’t stop in NJ or even the Train station on Rt.80. When I called Martz about getting off on RT 3 I was told they can’t do it for insurance reasons.

Next, your comment on traffic. Traffic now backs up before Exit 25 on occasion. Not to mention that driving into NYC from Pa in the morning you driving into the sun. Then doing it again in the afternoon you hit the setting sun for part of the year. Let me tell you 80 is lined up perfect with sun as you crest a few of the hills! Next is the first 4 miles from the Water Gap in NJ till you get past Tannersville in Pa. This section can get halted for hours, at any point of the day or night, for accidents, road work, snow. You just sit there, there is no where to go. It’s 2 skinny lanes of traffic in each direction. Trucks are constantly getting into accidents shutting down the Highway. Rt 611(your only local road around Rt 80) if you get on it is normally a parking lot though out the day. Forget it when there is an accident.

I'll have to agree with the last post. 80 sucks! Plain English. I hated when I was a delivery driver and my route included 80. If you weren't past Rte 15 by 6 am forget it. You crawled from there to 287. I won't even get into 209 out of Marshalls Creek to I-80. Going west on a Friday night? Pack a dinner, it will be loooonnnngggg wait.How is a bus going to be faster than the train sitting in the same mess as everyone else?
I don't believe the train would be longer,even with stops.Truthfully, how many extra stops would there be? Scranton,Mt. Pocono, Stroudsburg OR Water Gap, Blairstown, Andover.For the amount of riders using Lake Hopatcong, I could see NJT eliminating that stop anyway. Seems like a ghost stop since Mt. Arlington opened. How long does train stop anyway ? Maybe under 2 minutes if they hold to the schedules. That is about 10 minutes of stopping. Lot more than that on 80 I guarantee.

Mod Note: Everybody relax!

If you wish to refer to a locomotive as "44" or "E44" or "E-44" or "ALP44", you can do whatever you like. As long as you're not being misleading or using a really obscure name/reference, does it matter? Let's all take a step back and go count some air molecules outdoors...


And if you upset someone, say "I'm sorrrie"...