Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Never going to happen. Additionally the right of way is no longer continguous in Long Valley. A section of the right of way was sold off to adjoining land owners long ago.

Are we really wasting time talking about freight over the cutoff? At least for the next several decades, it is only going to Andover. Unless there is an online customer between there and Port Morris, it is a non-issue.

Imagine if NJT did go all the way to Scranton though... how long of it a trip it would be. It takes them 90 minutes just to get from NY to Dover!

SecaucusJunction wrote:Are we really wasting time talking about freight over the cutoff?

That was my fault. Someone made a joke about the "garbage train conspiracy" and I just asked for a refresh is all. My bad; you're right, it's not going to happen anytime soon. I only asked because I thought selling overhead rights and assessing track fees would help defray the cost.

SecaucusJunction wrote:Imagine if NJT did go all the way to Scranton though... how long of it a trip it would be. It takes them 90 minutes just to get from NY to Dover!

Given the new bidirectional signalling on the Morristown Line, I'd imagine some of the peak Scranton trains would be true expresses, stopping only at Morristown between Newark and Dover, similarly to the PJ trains that only stop at Ramsey Route 17 and/or Ridgewood on their way to Suffern. Capacity issues Millburn-Summit might necessitate a stop at Summit as well, in order to ensure clear running Summit-Dover.

Lets all be honest with ourselves again here. I don't mean to be a broken record, but this is NJ Transit. When was the last time they had a train skip a stop west of Summit that wasn't named Mt. Tabor? We're not talking about Metro North on this route like we are going to Port Jervis. Trains to High Bridge, Bay Head, Hackettstown all require many, many local stops along the way.

This whole thing is moot though because there is little hope of this line going past Andover in any of our lifetimes. Even the federal high speed rail money that was once given out across the country is all going away. Deficit cutting is now the name of the game both at the state and federal levels.

Jeff is right, though. The only way that this project could ever get off the ground would be from funding from a private company, and that will never happen.

SecaucusJunction wrote:Are we really wasting time talking about freight over the cutoff? At least for the next several decades, it is only going to Andover. Unless there is an online customer between there and Port Morris, it is a non-issue.

Imagine if NJT did go all the way to Scranton though... how long of it a trip it would be. It takes them 90 minutes just to get from NY to Dover!

The proposed schedules are out there in PDF format somewhere. I hate to post but not cite, but I believe that it was about 3:00 from Scranton to Hoboken Terminal, and around 2:00 from Delaware Water Gap.

Scranton also had an initial expected ridership of around 50 people, so I assume that would be something they would want to develop after they move into town, but thats on Pennsylvanias buck...not NJ.

When Miss Phoebe Snow ran the route according to a schudule book I have from the early 60s it was a 3hr and 25 min ride. YIKES!!! I wouldn't want to be stuck on an NJT Train for that long 6 hrs of my daily life in a Comet car is not cool unless if it's the same type of equipment ACES use like Amtrak Seating, a bar/snack car. Can adouble deck train go that far or will the equipment be single level. I still feel that the route will be extended within our lifetimes to atleast service up to Blairstown or E Stroudsburg to take care of NJ and the border town in PA but that's it. You're very limited to how fast a train can go into the mountain region like the Poconos. Unless if Camelback wants to help pay for the trains for skiing during the winter and to bring people to their water and adventure parks during the summer including shuttle bus service from the stations.

NJTRailfan wrote:When Miss Phoebe Snow ran the route according to a schudule book I have from the early 60s it was a 3hr and 25 min ride. YIKES!!! I wouldn't want to be stuck on an NJT Train for that long 6 hrs of my daily life in a Comet car is not cool unless if it's the same type of equipment ACES use like Amtrak Seating, a bar/snack car. Can adouble deck train go that far or will the equipment be single level. I still feel that the route will be extended within our lifetimes to atleast service up to Blairstown or E Stroudsburg to take care of NJ and the border town in PA but that's it. You're very limited to how fast a train can go into the mountain region like the Poconos. Unless if Camelback wants to help pay for the trains for skiing during the winter and to bring people to their water and adventure parks during the summer including shuttle bus service from the stations.

since you brung up the ACES cars, i think this could(not saying it will) be an option as to where those cars go.

If NJT takes back the ACES cars, they will turn them into regular commuter coaches... not keep them on mothballs for a fantasy ride to Scranton that has no chance of happening before the end of the life for those cars. There is no need for anything more than commuter cars for service to Andover.

Remember also, that NJT early projections for travel times never come to fruition. Early travel times from Montclair and Route 17 were extended (Rt 17 to NYP was originally supposed to be 38 minutes) This would be a 3.5+ hour disaster commute to NYC for anyone involved. There are much better ways to spend the little money that NJ (and PA) have.

Scranton doesn't seem like a commuter rail endpoint to me. It seems like a good endpoint for a Downeaster-type service. Similar run time; similar size of the smaller city (Scranton is a hair bigger).

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
The last Conrail freight on the the Cutoff was April 1979.

Where do you get April 1979 from??? The connection at Port Morris(UN) to the Cutoff was severed in January of 1979....I have a CR bulletin at home that shows this. All through freights from Croxton to Scranton could not have used the Cutoff after January of 1979!!

I would think East Stoudsburg would make a better commuter end point. You're right about Scranton being more like the Downeaster. No way in Hell would I spend 5-6 hrs on a NJT coach regardless of single or bilevel commuting to and from work. Even the Lackawanna and the EL could get the times down due to the curves and slower speeds. I still think they can to East Stouds but that's is for commuter.

blockline4180 wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
The last Conrail freight on the the Cutoff was April 1979.

Where do you get April 1979 from??? The connection at Port Morris(UN) to the Cutoff was severed in January of 1979....I have a CR bulletin at home that shows this. All through freights from Croxton to Scranton could not have used the Cutoff after January of 1979!!

I guess January 1979 was correct. Must have gotten April confused somewhere.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

blockline4180 wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
The last Conrail freight on the the Cutoff was April 1979.

Where do you get April 1979 from??? The connection at Port Morris(UN) to the Cutoff was severed in January of 1979....I have a CR bulletin at home that shows this. All through freights from Croxton to Scranton could not have used the Cutoff after January of 1979!!

I guess January 1979 was correct. Must have gotten April confused somewhere.

There was a special Amtrak trip in November of 1979 that pushed a train from Denville to the Port Morris and then reversed onto the wye to lead west... Maybe that is what your thinking of??

The EGE wrote:Scranton doesn't seem like a commuter rail endpoint to me. It seems like a good endpoint for a Downeaster-type service. Similar run time; similar size of the smaller city (Scranton is a hair bigger).

Just for the record, there are a number of extreme commuters who take the Downeaster from Maine to Boston each day.