Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

it was already approved..why do we have to go back and revisit this. Bids have gone out already. they are not going to remove vegetation and stop. 7 miles to Andover is on..never was off and we will see work in 2011. west of andover is still a mystery..as is the time for the trucks to start removing the vegetation, but it will happen at some point

northjerseybuff wrote:it was already approved..why do we have to go back and revisit this. Bids have gone out already. they are not going to remove vegetation and stop. 7 miles to Andover is on..never was off and we will see work in 2011. west of andover is still a mystery..as is the time for the trucks to start removing the vegetation, but it will happen at some point

Yes but so was the tunnel and look what they did to that, anything can and will be stopped if need be.

northjerseybuff wrote:it was already approved..why do we have to go back and revisit this. Bids have gone out already. they are not going to remove vegetation and stop. 7 miles to Andover is on..never was off and we will see work in 2011. west of andover is still a mystery..as is the time for the trucks to start removing the vegetation, but it will happen at some point

Because it makes perfect sense to build new construction to a station 7 miles out that no one will ride from and isn't even designed as a major park and ride type station (as far as i know) to build the first segment of a line that right now has all its potential hinging on Pennsylvania, all at a time when there is no money and service cuts and of course ARC being killed. At least ARC had some things going for it, it is needed in one form or another. Might not be perfect, but sooner or later, tunnels are oging to have to be built. And who even knows whats going on with Portal.....

NJT can survive without an "Andover Branch". They have plenty of other things to waste their money on than that......

Removing vegetation is not a big deal. The former CNJ is totally clear and intact for 8 miles west of High Bridge. That doesn't mean trains are going to be running to Hampton or Glen Gardner or whereever tomorrow, even tho they physically could

Sorry NJB, im just being realistic here......I hope im wrong, and they are out there as soon as the ground thaws, but i dunno...........

sure it can be stopped..but it wasn't! and i agree its silly to andover..but you emailed them and got a direct answer from njt that work will begin...as did i..so unless they are lying something will happen this year.

I hope work will begin too, I just remember their timeline saying that vegetation and "grub" removal would have supposed to happened already last december (2009). I saw people were posting some things up about whether or not it was still on and my curiosity got the best of me and I emailed them.

blockline4180 wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:The most successful people in this country are those who take matters into their own hands, start their own businesses, etc rather than waiting for others to do something for them. So, I'm gonna just rebuild the darn line myself if the government won't do it!

You do that!!! Do you have $600+ million to spare in your deep pockets?? Or are there holes????

Well, if we can somehow guilt that Zucherburger into giving the state some more money...

Jtgshu wrote:

northjerseybuff wrote:it was already approved..why do we have to go back and revisit this. Bids have gone out already. they are not going to remove vegetation and stop. 7 miles to Andover is on..never was off and we will see work in 2011. west of andover is still a mystery..as is the time for the trucks to start removing the vegetation, but it will happen at some point

Because it makes perfect sense to build new construction to a station 7 miles out that no one will ride from and isn't even designed as a major park and ride type station (as far as i know) to build the first segment of a line that right now has all its potential hinging on Pennsylvania, all at a time when there is no money and service cuts and of course ARC being killed. At least ARC had some things going for it, it is needed in one form or another. Might not be perfect, but sooner or later, tunnels are oging to have to be built. And who even knows whats going on with Portal.....

NJT can survive without an "Andover Branch". They have plenty of other things to waste their money on than that......

Removing vegetation is not a big deal. The former CNJ is totally clear and intact for 8 miles west of High Bridge. That doesn't mean trains are going to be running to Hampton or Glen Gardner or whereever tomorrow, even tho they physically could

Sorry NJB, im just being realistic here......I hope im wrong, and they are out there as soon as the ground thaws, but i dunno...........

@Jtgshu: Take a drive through Andover. There are major developments planned for that area around the station.

Jtgshu wrote:

northjerseybuff wrote:it was already approved..why do we have to go back and revisit this. Bids have gone out already. they are not going to remove vegetation and stop. 7 miles to Andover is on..never was off and we will see work in 2011. west of andover is still a mystery..as is the time for the trucks to start removing the vegetation, but it will happen at some point

Because it makes perfect sense to build new construction to a station 7 miles out that no one will ride from and isn't even designed as a major park and ride type station (as far as i know) to build the first segment of a line that right now has all its potential hinging on Pennsylvania, all at a time when there is no money and service cuts and of course ARC being killed. At least ARC had some things going for it, it is needed in one form or another. Might not be perfect, but sooner or later, tunnels are oging to have to be built. And who even knows whats going on with Portal.....

NJT can survive without an "Andover Branch". They have plenty of other things to waste their money on than that......

Removing vegetation is not a big deal. The former CNJ is totally clear and intact for 8 miles west of High Bridge. That doesn't mean trains are going to be running to Hampton or Glen Gardner or whereever tomorrow, even tho they physically could

Sorry NJB, im just being realistic here......I hope im wrong, and they are out there as soon as the ground thaws, but i dunno...........

Not quite sure why we couldn't put a Stanhope Station at the CR 605 crossing and possibly extend the MOS to Blairstown? Blairstown is larger than Andover. NJ Transit seems to be hinged on only having 8 stations despite the fact that Tobyhanna & Scranton is such a big gap separating two stations. Dunmore, Gouldsboro and Moscow are being skipped, and I find the leaving out of Dunmore, which is park & ride heaven, very close to Dickson City, which is big for a small town in development.

Since the line is hinging on PA, we could just work for a Blairstown, Johnsonburg, Greendell, Andover and Stanhope line for now with a mini yard at Blairstown? Greendell's ultimate MOW thing can wait. Johnsonburg at least has a community attached. At least having more stations might attract better ridership and reduce the stress at Dover, Mt Arlington, and so on west.

As for the RVL to Hampton, hell, I don't get why NJ Transit isn't interested in pushing this forward despite the lack of PA funding at the moment. Glen Gardner and Hampton should have train service, and it seems more like they keep getting the shaft.

uzplayer and roadgeek, I don't care about developments being planned.......Allied Junction was planned too. So far along that they even built a big train station that was to be the foundation for huge developments at Sec Jct train station.

There are plenty of other places in the state and lines that are planned/needed that already have had developments developed, that need train service yesterday. Not tomorrow.

NJT has cut service over the past few years. The Raritan line was very hard hit. It would be great to see the line extended further out towards Glen Gardner and Hampton. But it would require lots of money to do and not only for building/rebuilding the line for train service and the stations, etc. But operation wise (remember, they are two seperate budgets on NJT) It takes an hour roughly for a crew to X up to High Bridge and run east back down to Raritan. (or run west and X back east to Raritan) Extending the line any further would probably make that closer to two hours. Meaning nearly a whole hour at least is wasted on crew deadheading and layover at an endpoint station. Something that NJT doesn't seem to want to spend its scarce money on.

TRUST me, no one wants to see service expanded more than I do - I have a vested interest in it, but again, reality getting in the way kinda sucks.....and the current state of gov't isn't going to allow for expansions of all it seems, and we will be very lucky to keep what we have me thinks......

Mine doesn't hint development. I only mentioned Dunmore because of Dickson City PA. Hell I hate development a bit. There's times I think development is fine, but not always.

Glen Gardner and Hampton are towns rather close together, I can't see a deadheading taking a full extra hour.

First, please no one take umbrage, but I get these two handles confused:

Jtgshu - New Jersey Transit Locomotive Engineer

Jishnu - Fellow from India who rides NJT and resides in Short Hills

Why can't everyone use a handle like mine - my given legal name (or if employed within the railroad industry or a peripheral to such, a memorable nom d plums such as Nellie Bly), but then I don't make site rules and the rant is over.

Now with that out of the way (and I think I am addressing the Locomotive Engineer), I must wonder if 'the powers that be" are taking a page from "Field of Dreams" and holding "if you build it, they will come".

I can remember once driving US206 during October to Princeton and I really thought "this is idyllic". In short, Northwest New Jersey is an attractive area and apparently still relatively undeveloped. There are enough cases out there of "first came the railroad, then came the town" (I live in just such a town; I went to a school - University of Illinois @ Champaign, which is also a case of just that).

Now I realize the NIMBY's will be up in arms, but Gov. Christie wants to see 'copper in the hopper' from taxes (authority level notwithstanding) that higher income residents - especially if they have made a choice of residing in NJ - will drop around the State. Even if these residents work in NY, and as such NY gets the Income Tax on those earniongs, there are NJ jurisdictions and school districts happy to have their bite and there will be bored housewifes at the malls (I'm sure they will spring up around US206 in Sussex County) that will make it look like Carmella Soprano shops at Goodwill Industries.

Jtgshu wrote:uzplayer and roadgeek, I don't care about developments being planned.......Allied Junction was planned too. So far along that they even built a big train station that was to be the foundation for huge developments at Sec Jct train station.

There are plenty of other places in the state and lines that are planned/needed that already have had developments developed, that need train service yesterday. Not tomorrow.

NJT has cut service over the past few years. The Raritan line was very hard hit. It would be great to see the line extended further out towards Glen Gardner and Hampton. But it would require lots of money to do and not only for building/rebuilding the line for train service and the stations, etc. But operation wise (remember, they are two seperate budgets on NJT) It takes an hour roughly for a crew to X up to High Bridge and run east back down to Raritan. (or run west and X back east to Raritan) Extending the line any further would probably make that closer to two hours. Meaning nearly a whole hour at least is wasted on crew deadheading and layover at an endpoint station. Something that NJT doesn't seem to want to spend its scarce money on.

TRUST me, no one wants to see service expanded more than I do - I have a vested interest in it, but again, reality getting in the way kinda sucks.....and the current state of gov't isn't going to allow for expansions of all it seems, and we will be very lucky to keep what we have me thinks......

@jtgshu: Let me correct my previous statement. There are ALREADY developments around the station. You drive within a mile north, and you see two major housing developments. To the south, you encounter the town of Andover which is more then likely going to skyrocket in population as the place is one of the few affordable areas left to live in New Jersey.

Additionally, Newton is not too far from the proposed station...about a 15-20 minute drive.

I'm sure you want rail expansion jt. Nothing has hinted otherwise to me. That's why I am saying that the private sector needs to step up again. If the right tax incentives were offered to freight carriers to start re-integrating passenger services, then the state of our transportation infrastructure would be radically different.

I drove under the Cutoff on Rt 206 the other day - I think the 206 tunnel is in Andover - and it looks like quite an impressive fill there! Such a shame to see that engineering achievement go to waste...

I drove through Andover today - always seems like a sad sight, and a symbol of our shortsighted transportation policy:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... 1532817447

Damn, that's a pretty impressive piece of engineering right there. Why isn't it being used?