Kudos to NJT Conductors

I was on the 10:03p express from NY today, and had noticed the crowd hadn't entered the train even though I arrived at the platform level 5 minutes after the first boarding announcement was called. Then I heard a ticket collector from the rear of the train telling the passengers to walk forward to enter the train.

When we found doors open about 3 cars forward, some passengers became disgruntled and even decided to talk to the conductor about not opening the doors in the rear of the train. The conductor firmly replied "If I open the doors in the rear of the train, then everyone will pack themselves in and the front of the train will be empty."

After several 'interrogations' and more disputes, one passenger recalled that 'now everyone's walking to the back', as if the conductor knew nothing. During this time, I was standing in the vestibule, thinking about finding a seat. So, about a minute later, I walk forward. 1 car, 2 cars, and voila! Seats! The first 3 cars were virtually empty, and the rear brakemen had to needlessly open all 12 cars to satisfy the querulous passengers.

How life would be a lot easier if people listened to authority! I congratulate those workers who try to help passengers and themselves, but are helplessly passed off by naive riders who really want to have it their way..

How life would be a lot easier if people listened to authority! I congratulate those workers who try to help passengers and themselves, but are helplessly passed off by naive riders who really want to have it their way..

I second that!!!!

Im glad you listened to the annoucement and/or directions!!! People just don't listen!!!

The new east end concourse has really complicated the loading of trains.....

The engineer and crew wants the front of the train open, as its easier to run the train, and easier for the engineer of the train to spot the train adn make stations, etc, and if there is push pulls, there is roughly a 50 percent chance of a bathroom being in the front with the cab car. But now the hind end of the train gets so loaded from the east end coucourse, that often times the rearbrakeman has to open more cars than is necessary because people just don't move. Poeple will stand eyeball to eyeball, and not walk up one or two cars where the cars are virtually empty. Then the rearbrake has to do a lot more legwork adn runing around if more cars are opened and 12 cars down to Trenton is no walk in the park. Last four cars walk up, frist two and last two cars must walk, etc, etc, etc, and any time people have to walk up to exit, you are running the risk of getting yelled at and a confrontation, or worse......

It gets very frustrating when people are standing in line, 40 and 50 deep, trying to get into one door, when there are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 plus cars and dozens of doors down the train, but no one will walk. I stand there and yell and yell and yell and yell and people look at me like i have two heads....."WALK UP WALK UP PLEASE WALK UP - WHY ARE YOU ALL GOING INTO ONE DOOR, THERE IS A WHOLE TRAIN UP THERE - BEER IN THE FIRST CAR" (that usually raises a few eyebrows!!)

Its a very bad thing to say, and im sure someone will take offense, but passengers AS A WHOLE are really like sheep. you have to put up barriers (close the doors of open cars) in a vain attempt to get the herd where you want them to go and spread out a little bit. I just tune out the yelling now "i NEED to be in teh back, let me in back there, where can we get on at (while standing in front and blcoking an open doorway mind you), etc, etc, etc, etc"

NEVER A DULL MOMENT!!!! :D

Bottom line jt and no offense it is a royal pain for passengers to be forced to go down to the platform and then have to shuffle along down a cold or hot (depending on the time of the year), narrow, crowded platform to find an open door. It is like being a rat in a maze. And yes, I am always put in a bad mood when it happens to me.

Since NJT now has the 7th avenue concourse as their primary space in NYP then they should load trains from the back regardless of the other problems it may cause.

Personally I HATE the 7th avenue concourse and go down to the trains from the 8th Avenue side (a consistant 2 stairs to all platforms, easy assess to the mainly LIRR platforms that NJT sometimes uses) as much as possible.

People never listen to those announcements. I take advantage of them because I know they are always true and that few passengers listen to them so I know the seats will be there when I reach it.

This is not a situation that is unique to NJT or NYP. While in London, people stand huddle around the entrance to the tube platform and there were constant annoucements and signs everywhere to move down the platform. I'd have to fight my way through the crowd to the uncrowed parts. I would get a seat and those who were incapable of moving had to jamb in like sardines.

Jtgshu wrote:
It gets very frustrating when people are standing in line, 40 and 50 deep, trying to get into one door, when there are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 plus cars and dozens of doors down the train, but no one will walk. I stand there and yell and yell and yell and yell and people look at me like i have two heads....."WALK UP WALK UP PLEASE WALK UP - WHY ARE YOU ALL GOING INTO ONE DOOR, THERE IS A WHOLE TRAIN UP THERE - BEER IN THE FIRST CAR" (that usually raises a few eyebrows!!)

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That's been my experience on Midtown Direct and Montclair Direct, too. People stacked in toward the back of the back of the train at NYP and whole cars empty up front, the 9th avenue end.

Mark, I know you hate, it, as do I when I am trying to board a train ( that I am not working) and Im sure lots and lots and lots of other people do too. But the bottom line is that it has to be done. People will stack themselves into a car, and severely overcrowd the car and stay in there instead of walking down the platform into a less crowded or empty car. This causes safety issues. The aisles need to be clear at all times, I know that on some trians, that just simply isn't the case, but when there are plenty of seats and space in other cars, and one or two cars are severly overcrowded, that is a safety issue, and the rearbrake can actually get in trouble. If the rearbrake can't get through the car to open the doors at the various stops, becuase some stops might have to walk up to exit, then the train becomes delayed becuase it takes longer for the doors to open at the stops, and longer for the train to unload because people are tripping over each other.

I hate the countless "why aren't these doors open" " I wanna go back there" "how do I get in" "are you leaving" etc etc etc etc. But it doesnt' matter. I have to do it and deal with it. I say " because everyoen will go into one door and crowd one car" then the people grumble as they turn into the first open door and make a right, crowding the back anyway. But because a car and a half's doors are closed, they actually have a place to go when they make the inevitable right into the train from teh first open door.

Every once in a while for kicks (im easily amused :D ), I will open all the doors and not close any on the east end. People will stack into that last car, and then bitch and moan at me becuase the train is so crowded, and that there isn't enough cars, and that they shuoldn't pay, etc, etc, etc, etc. I then make announcements like "all the passengers standing in the last car, 5029, please walk forward through the train, 2 cars up there is a total of 25 people in the entire car. There is NO REASON to stand packed in the last car 5029. Just take your bodys and belongings forward 2 cars and there are plenty of seats (sometimes when people hear an announcement like that, they get a little embarrased and will walk through the train)

The same thing happens in Boston nobody wants to walk all the way to the front of the train. When i ride the CR from Boston to Lowell it is easier for me to ride the front 2 cars because when u get off your on a high platform and right next to the exit. While walking up the stairs and over the tracks everybody seems to be getting off from the back of the train. I think this is all caused by sheer lazyness because people don't want to walk to the front after a day at work.

Jtgshu wrote:Every once in a while for kicks (im easily amused :D ), I will open all the doors and not close any on the east end. People will stack into that last car, and then bitch and moan at me becuase the train is so crowded, and that there isn't enough cars, and that they shuoldn't pay, etc, etc, etc, etc. I then make announcements like "all the passengers standing in the last car, 5029, please walk forward through the train, 2 cars up there is a total of 25 people in the entire car. There is NO REASON to stand packed in the last car 5029. Just take your bodys and belongings forward 2 cars and there are plenty of seats (sometimes when people hear an announcement like that, they get a little embarrased and will walk through the train)

Like rats in a maze.

Porter Sq wrote: I think this is all caused by sheer lazyness because people don't want to walk to the front after a day at work.

Bingo! Back in my MidTown days, I was the Conductor on 6655 which was a 9 car outfit express to Maplewood. Just me, a TC, and the RB. I would collect the head five cars between NYP and Broad St. while the other two guys would struggle to meet the rear three. It was awful. SRO in the rear two and the third was pretty saturated, too. Meanwhile, I had ten people in the head car, maybe twenty in the second. Those Maplewood people refused to walk up. They'd rather stand and bitch than walk forward two or three cars and relax. I'd make plenty of sarcastic announcements to the effect that "NJ Transit spent a lot of money to put nine cars on this train so please utilize them!" To no avail. The solution? Head end spots! Maplewood, Millburn, and Short Hills people FINALLY realized that they'll be walking forward to exit anyhow so why not walk forward in NYP and, lo and behold, there ARE seats up here!

Of course, the real solution to the problem is for NJ Transit to design a car that holds 500 people. Put it on the back of the train so everyone can ride in the rear car !! It'd have to be the size of a tri-level auto rack but at least the Maplewood people would finally be happy. Maybe.

I had a LOL moment when I heard the trainman on the PA announce "there are 235 empty seats in the first three cars! Please walk up to find seats!"

I'm not sure what the actual number was, so save the flames please...

On the NEC, it seems to be common practice to spot the train in different spots at certain stations on the non peak and weekend trains heading towards NYP (ex. head car near mid platform and Princeton Jct, later head car past platform at another station but rear car on platform). I'm assuming this is so they distribute the passengers a bit more evenly through 8-10 cars. Is this practice done on other lines.

Do the train personnel take into account the location of the underpasses at train stations?

At Short Hills the underpass is to the east end of the station so if you are heading west and have your car in the parking lot or live in the Glenwood section of town and are walking home you ideally want to be in the second or third car from the back of the train (though it varies depending if it is a push or pull situation - detemining the ideal car to be in is a science which is why I like to get to the platform for the 5:18 I ususally take before the train is announced to get myself smack in front of the ideal door. I am not the only person who does this. There is a band of regulars.). But it means that a train like the 5:18 which has a lot of people who get off at Short Hills will have a lot of people who want to be towards the rear. Millburn has the parking lot along the west bound tracks so if I park at Millburn I want to be in a car that will stop near where i parked, or at the attendent's booth if I left my car with the valet. But generally if I am parked in Millburn I want to be in a car somewhat more forward in the train than if I am parked in Short Hills.

I am not familiar with other stations but I am sure they too have their own patterns based on the location of stairways and parking lots.

On the NEC, the location of the exits of hte station determine hwo the train is spotted, as mentioned above. Elizabeth loads the front of a westboud, Linden the back, Rahway middle. Metropark middle, Metuchen front, Edison back, New Brunswick front, PJ middle/back, Hamilton middle, Trenton towards front.

So if you have a 12 car train, you might make a head end stop at Metro (last two walk forward), DEFINATELY a head end stop at Metuchen (last 5 walk forward) Edison a hind end stop (first four cars walk back), New Brunswick, head end,( last four or first two and last two walk)

On the weekend eastbounds, its common to spot the train short at Hamilton and PJ. Make only an 8 car stop on the platform (a 12 car platform) so the front of the train loads up at both locatoins. Then try to keep at least one car closed, better yet two for New Brunswick, and later on, Elizabeth.

Its not quite as prevalant on the Coast Line with people having sections of the train, but Matawan is in the back, Middletown, extreme front and extreme back, Perth Amboy, middle, Hazlet towards teh back, most other stations are spread out pretty evenly.

Just because people like to be in the back for a certain stop, im not going to open all the doors for boarding. The same problem will still occur. You will have people who just get on the train and don't matter where they go, plus the people who want to be in the back, again leading to an overcrowding situation. Then everyone stands up a stop early to "get into position" so they can run out of the train, and this really causes a problem for the rearbrake trying to get back to open the doors. This is a big problem between Metuchen and Edison when the rearbrake has to walk back a few cars. A few times, I couldn't get back before we stopped, adn I had to yell to get through the car, so i could get to the door to open the doors.

The next day this happened again, and I told them, this has to stop, or we are going to make them walk up. The next day they did this again, and I had enough. The following day, we made a head end stop, and they had to walk up two cars. I gave enough warning to them to let me get through and i never had any more problems with them not letting me through :D

Train 6647 5:18PM to Dover is my regular train so here goes with the patterns.

Secaucus- people sit anywhere (actually stand is more likely)
Millburn - people generally utilize the whole train but I notice a concentration of people at the front.
Short Hills - Fairly evenly spaced from what I can tell.
Summit - Most people are at the rear of the train. Despite several announcements that the last 3 cars will be off the platform - please walk up, we still sit there for several minutes as people trickle out of the last door. Maybe I will start pulling the head 3 cars off just to see what happens.
Chatham - Even spacing, not a problem
Madison - Not bad at all - usually a good station stop.
Convent - Whao, this is the one that gets me. The grade crossing to cross over to the parking lot is on the East end of the platform. Everybody on the train walks back to exit at the last car (on the east end right at the crossing). The result is a 5 minute station stop as everybody trickles out the last door on the east end. 10 minute station stops on rainy days because everybody takes time to open the umbrella on the stairs. If people would utilize more doors we would be out of there faster and they would be in their cars more quickly.
Morristown - good stop, generally no spotting problems.
Morris Plains - Again, good stop.
Denville - only the head 6 will fit there but not too many people get off there. most are up front.
Dover - I have a bunch up front heading to the parking lot across S. Morris st. and a bunch at the rear heading to the other parking lot.

Generally, we are a packed 9 car train. Secaucus really finishes us off. Usually on Mondays I don't even attempt to collect fares until we let the secaucus people off. SRO in the first few cars. I am constantly amazed at how many people get off at Millburn. I can only imagine what that parking lot is like when people start trying to leave in their cars!

Scott