Kodak Park trackmobiles

Do they own more than one? I know of one. Thanks.

Charles

I have seen one quite often this winter..but I havent paid attention if its always the same one or not!
I will pay better attention and see how many I notice..

They dont (or "it doesnt") live around the enginehouse..I think it must be kept over near the powerplant.
(between Mount Read and 390)
there is only one coal powerplant still running..the one in the "east park" (the old section of Kodak park) is now OOS..

On a sad related note..*all* EK markings have been removed from the three KPRR locomotives!..All references to Kodak are gone.
only the flames and the road numbers remain..
They technically might not even be KPRR anymore..the railroad might now be run by an outside contractor..
but I dont know anything specific..All I know is the markings disappeared..

Scot

The Kodak Park RR is now operated by the Rochester & Southern RR. This information came from a very reliable source.

In the "Good old days" they were pretty hot looking engines...

Kodak Park #3:


One of the Trackmobiles:

Matt Langworthy wrote:The Kodak Park RR is now operated by the Rochester & Southern RR. This information came from a very reliable source.

Interesting! Would there be any kind of STB filing to go with this, or would they not be involved?

Otto Vondrak wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:The Kodak Park RR is now operated by the Rochester & Southern RR. This information came from a very reliable source.

Interesting! Would there be any kind of STB filing to go with this, or would they not be involved?

I don't know if an STB filing would be necessary or not. It probably depends on the relationship between the R&S and the Kodak Park RR. I will ask my source about it.

I doubt that any STB filings are required. The (apparently now) former Kodak Park RR was not a "common carrier", i.e. they did not accept freight cars for transportation to other customers on their RR. Therefore the STB (or before that the ICC) has little to say about what happens inside KP.

In fact I'm not sure how much the FRA has (had) to say about what happens inside KP. Do they (Kodak) have to meet all of the FRA rules about locomotives, safety devices, etc? Anybody know? Maybe now that they are operated by a common carrier they have to meet all the FRA rules inside KP. I never heard of FRA inspectors on Kodak property. I think the Kodak Park RR just "tried" to follow most FRA rules because it gave them a readily available source of standards and rules to safely operate their system. But at times they employed "company cars" for their own needs, the unique wheel cars that they fabricated for moving the large coating wheels around their property never met FRA standards. Maybe these complied with the "not acceptable for interchange" rules, but I think the FRA eventually got tough about "company" equipment safety standards as well.

When Kodak presents railroad cars to the R&S or CSX for transport by a common carrier they must of course comply with the FRA and STB rules.

Of course OSHA and New York State rules would apply. Does OSHA defer to FRA rules for private (non common carrier) railroads? Anybody know?

A little off topic, but the orginal railroad connection to KP was from the south (via the NYCRR) just to the west of B26. At one time (1990's) a few rails were still slightly visible under the blacktop in the access road just along the west side of B26. The rails crossed Ridge Rd (South/North) right between the former sandwich shop and B26. I think the "modern" connection further west at the Charlotte Branch dates to the boom years of the late 1920's, but I am not sure of that date.

Cheers, Kevin.

[quote="NYCRRson"]I doubt that any STB filings are required. The (apparently now) former Kodak Park RR was not a "common carrier", i.e. they did not accept freight cars for transportation to other customers on their RR. Therefore the STB (or before that the ICC) has little to say about what happens inside KP.

In fact I'm not sure how much the FRA has (had) to say about what happens inside KP. Do they (Kodak) have to meet all of the FRA rules about locomotives, safety devices, etc? Anybody know? Maybe now that they are operated by a common carrier they have to meet all the FRA rules inside KP. I never heard of FRA inspectors on Kodak property. I think the Kodak Park RR just "tried" to follow most FRA rules because it gave them a readily available source of standards and rules to safely operate their system. But at times they employed "company cars" for their own needs, the unique wheel cars that they fabricated for moving the large coating wheels around their property never met FRA standards. Maybe these complied with the "not acceptable for interchange" rules, but I think the FRA eventually got tough about "company" equipment safety standards as well.

When Kodak presents railroad cars to the R&S or CSX for transport by a common carrier they must of course comply with the FRA and STB rules.

Of course OSHA and New York State rules would apply. Does OSHA defer to FRA rules for private (non common carrier) railroads? Anybody know?

A little off topic, but the orginal railroad connection to KP was from the south (via the NYCRR) just to the west of B26. At one time (1990's) a few rails were still slightly visible under the blacktop in the access road just along the west side of B26. The rails crossed Ridge Rd (South/North) right between the former sandwich shop and B26. I think the "modern" connection further west at the Charlotte Branch dates to the boom years of the late 1920's, but I am not sure of that date.

Cheers, Kevin.[/quote]
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edit, I didnt use the quote fuction correctly, bummer, this is not Kevin


when I went for my training on railroad tank cars there, I am pretty sure it was a FRA inspector that gave the course, or he was in attendance at least......but dont quote me on that.......as far as the rest of the stuff, I am sure they in compliance with all the rules they have to be......

I really had to check into that original connection line, I dug into a lot of plat books online and finally found it, looks like it crossed the ridge near palm street then crossed desmond between palm and pullman , then crossed dewey then pullman, then hooked up to the main between pullman and aster.....musta been a long time ago.......at first I couldnt believe that it was near b26, I have never seen a rail connection near there at all

as far as I know the only use of the trackmobiles is moving the coal cars into and out of the power house, so they dont have to call in an engine move just for that.......

note to add, I think the caboose had found a permanent resting place along eastman ave, maybe someday i can get a pic !!

sorry for the bad quoting Kevin.......

NYCRRson wrote:A little off topic, but the orginal railroad connection to KP was from the south (via the NYCRR) just to the west of B26. At one time (1990's) a few rails were still slightly visible under the blacktop in the access road just along the west side of B26. The rails crossed Ridge Rd (South/North) right between the former sandwich shop and B26. I think the "modern" connection further west at the Charlotte Branch dates to the boom years of the late 1920's, but I am not sure of that date.

minor correction, but you actually mean B28, not B26!

Im not sure when the "modern" connection was built either..but I can find out!
I have access to some gorgeous old maps..I will take a look at them later today and get some dates..

Scot

Scot, yes B28 "Theater on the Ridge", thank you. I haven't been in KP in a few years so I forget some of the building numbers.

Also;

"as far as I know the only use of the trackmobiles is moving the coal cars into and out of the power house, so they dont have to call in an engine move just for that......."

Yes. The east end power house (now OOS) at one time had a capstan type car mover, basically a big pulley sticking up out of the ground. By hooking a rope to the car and wrapping it around the drum one man could pull a fully loaded car into place. But those have been frowned on for safety reasons for a long time now.

Cheers, Kevin.

Ok, here are some KPRR dates gleaned from maps:

1894.
earliest map. Kodak Park has begun.
the oldest part of the park is the area off of Lake ave, north of Ridge road, just West of the Eastman memorial.
In 1894 only Buildings 1, 2, 3 and 4 exist. No railroad service yet in place.
Today only Building 1 remains. (building 2 existed until about 8 years ago.)

1912.
Kodak Park is HUGELY expanded.
The railroad spur off the NYC Charlotte branch is now in place.
This "original" spur branches off the NYC near the grade crossing of the NYC and Ridgeway ave,
it heads east, crosses Dewey, crosses Ridge Road near Building 28, and into KP.
the spur is visible on this 1920 map:
http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.a ... g&state=NY

1924.
KP has expanded West, and is now up next to the NYC and BR&P tracks.
The "modern" connection between the NYC and the KPRR now exists.
(This is the current connection between CSX and the KPRR at the Ridge Road grade crossing)
KPRR connects with NYC in 1924, but there is no BR&P connection yet.
Kodak buildings exist just East of the tracks, but have not yet expanded West of the tracks.

1930.
Kodak buildings are now West of the NYC and BR&P tracks, and a connection with the NYC and the BR&P now exists.

1954.
Original connection, crossing Dewey and Ridge road, next to B28, is still in place.

1992.
The original connection is now gone.
KPRR is at its greatest extent! (or so I assume..I doubt any tracks were removed before 1992)
KPRR is about 10 miles in length (with many spurs inside KP), extending from Lake ave in the East,
to building 605, near the intersection of Lexington ave and Lee Road, in the West.

2011. (no map! this is from my own observations)
In the last 5 years, the railroad has been cut back somewhat, although not significantly.
its probably still about 95% intact.
the eastern terminus right at Lake ave has been cut back perhaps 1,000 feet.
and im not sure if any trackage has been removed on the far West end, perhaps some has.
KP is much smaller in terms of buildings, but most of the railroad is still there, and still in use.

Scot

Regarding the trackage that used to enter Kodak Park alongside Bldg 28 ... it was always my understanding that there was a connection to the Rochester Subway that allowed the subway to run special trains during morning and evening rush hours to take workers to and from Kodak Park. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Today, my son works at what used to be Building 605 and he tells me the railroad loading docks in the back are still in place but the tracks are gone.

dj_paige wrote:Regarding the trackage that used to enter Kodak Park alongside Bldg 28 ... it was always my understanding that there was a connection to the Rochester Subway that allowed the subway to run special trains during morning and evening rush hours to take workers to and from Kodak Park. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I've never heard of that! but it seems quite plausible..
the subway could have easily hooked up to the NYC Charlotte branch out on its west end by General Motors..
but.. the subway was electric!
Subway trains could not run off of Subway tracks..
Its possible the NYC ran a special "commuter train" that hooked up to the subway though, and ran in conjunction with the subway.
but it would have had to be a separate train from the actual subway cars..

There was also a trolley/streetcar line that ran from downtown straight up Lake ave to Kodak..
many old Aerial photos show a trolley loop right across Lake ave from the main Lake ave entrance to KP.

Scot

Okay, here is the basis for my “memory”, although clearly I didn't remember it properly.

This line represented the only attempt to link the subway with city trolley lines, and it was accomplished through a cut-off near Emerson Street and Dewey Avenue, the cars emerging from the subway and running to the Dewey terminal not far from Kodak Park in rush hours only. It may be stated here that the late George Eastman, the Kodak King, had visions of seeing a stub line of the subway extended to Kodak Park, but such a dream never materialized in his day. Thus, Rochesters largest industry is not served by the subway, a very regrettable situation.

I knew this was somewhere else on the forum...

Took me a while to find it, but here it is:

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It was the original entrance to Kodak, and to the end of its existence was known as the "Old Way" (for some reason, it was always pronounced with the emphasis on the second word - "the old WAY")

This was accessed by a trailing point switch northbound off the Charlotte Branch, just south of the Kodak RR overpass. The line wound around through the side streets, crossed Dewey Ave just south of Steko Ave, crossed Palm Street, and entered Kodak by crossing Ridge Road as you say, by Bldg 28.

I'm not sure what date the present entrance to Kodak was created, but the Old Way remained in service until I believe the mid 1970s, just not as an entrance to Kodak. The line had numerous other customers and would have made a good modeling project, as it involved interesting switching moves.

At one time there was a receiver of stone for cemetery monuments, Kittleburger Furniture, Clark Steko Pastes, Crescent Puritan Laundry, Ring Fuel (coal dealer), Keystone Builders Supply, and I believe a couple others - all within slightly less than a mile.

When I went to school in the area in the early 60's, the tracks were still in from Palm Street to Kodak, but no longer were used. Somewhere about 1960 the curve was paved over, it became Pillaroscia's Parking, but the rails were still in. But the farthest they were used was to Keystone Builders at Palm Street. My regular route to school was walking down the tracks from Dewey Ave to Palm Street, inspecting whatever cars were there and sometimes climbing up and walking the roofwalks if there were no workers around unloading them.

There were 2 passing tracks across Ridge Road at the newer entrance (right next to the B&O). The west one was the passing track, the east one was known as the Old Way - in other words the track thus known started north of Ridge Road, went south along Kodak, then turned east and became the branch I've described.

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Hope this helps. I went to 41 school in the 60's and of course, the KPRR was (is) right next door to the north. From the classrooms in the upper floors, you could view activity on the Old Way to the south. I remember a slightly overpowered 1st Belt (four RS-1's) spotting a single boxcar at Keystone. By the way, the views on Bing clearly show the buried curve as noted in the above post.