IRT 11 Line?

Today I was taking the 42nd street shuttle from Times Square to GCT. As the shuttle pulled in on track 1 I noticed the message board on the side of the train (where the large grey "S" and the destinations "Times Square 42nd St" and "Grand Central" are) there was a violet circle with the route designation "11". I guess that the voilet color means it is part of the Flushing line, but I never heard of and "11" train; only the 1-7, & 9 trains.

Sometimes these signs are unintentionally changed by the crew, especially on 3 and Shuttle trains since they share interoperability. But I always thought that the flushing line did not have any connections to any other track System, except maybe one to the IND in Queens.

Was there ever an 11 line or thoughts to install one?

The 11 rollsign was ordered on R62/62A cars for a proposed service variant of the (7). It is also there to be used if needed.

IIRC, wasn't there a very brief time where the (11) was used in place of the <7>

Lirr168 wrote:IIRC, wasn't there a very brief time where the (11) was used in place of the <7>

No, it was never used.

What you might be thinking of is the talk on some of the boards that they might use it instead of the <7> for peak express service.

the other day i saw a r train with a sign that was a brown diamond r and a q train with the front sign sign was a orange q and the side signs were yellow diamond q

Hi All,

Since I haven't ridden the NYC Subways in a dog's age, and I see some changes since that time, let me ask these questions:

I believe that the subway trains always had numbers or letters to designate the line. I only payed attention to the letters on the IND, never paid attention to the numbers on the IRT or BMT. Instead I noted the destination of the train. So I caught the Broadway Seventh Ave. Express to Utica Ave, changed to the Lexington Ave Express, and I was gone. Were there the same numbers on those trains as there are now ?

Had to look at the destination of the E train on the IND, since I did not want the Rockaway Park train, I wanted the Far Rockaway train. If the weather was nice, I would change trains at Broad Channel, if not, I would change trains at Euclid Ave. Is this still the way things are there ?

Up until 1973(4?) the IRT ran the remains of the 3rd Ave elevated as the #8. Before it was integrated with the IND, the BMT routes were numbered. There was a BMT #11, the Myrtle Ave elevated, which became the MJ and was discontinued and torn down southwest of Broadway Brooklyn in late 1960s. To my knowledge, though, there was never an active IRT #11.

STR R-40 wrote:the other day i saw a r train with a sign that was a brown diamond r and a q train with the front sign sign was a orange q and the side signs were yellow diamond q

The Brown R was the remnant of the Nassau St Loop [pre-1967 Chrystie]. It ran a few rush hour trips from Chambers St to 95th st Brooklyn via Nassau St. It was discontinued when the M was switched from Brighton to the West End line.

The Orange Q was started when the 63rd St tunnel to Queensbridge opened. The line ran from 21st-Queensbridge to Brighton Beach via 6th Ave and Brighton Express. The B ran to Queensbridge after 9pm weekdays and all day on weekends, but during late nights it was combined with the F with a sign reading "Q to B'way-Lafayette then F to Coney Island" on the unrebuilt R46's. When the south tracks on the Manhattan Bridge re-opened, the Q was shifted from 6th Ave to Broadway. It became a full-time route when the Manhattan Bridge North tracks [to 6th Ave Subway] was closed, and the color switched to a yellow Q. At the same time, the diamond Q was established as the Brighton Express, so there was a Q local [circle]and a Q express [diamond] on Brighton. In Manhattan, both Q's ran express from 57th st to Canal St. That lasted until the big changes in 2004 which sent the D to West End, and the B replaced the diamond Q.

yesterday i saw a S with a purple 11 sign a D with the old jfk train to the plane sign a N with times square and 57st/7av signs and a W with coney island signs on them whats going on

rcervel wrote: But I always thought that the flushing line did not have any connections to any other track System, except maybe one to the IND in Queens.

After checking to be sure, I'm pretty certain there are no connections from the Flushing Line to any other line. I was always under the assumption that every line has at least ONE place to "break free" and access the rest of the subway, but the Flushing Line seems to be the exception.

Maps posted at nycsubway.org show all known tracks, including the non-revenue tracks like the City Hall loop, and the tracks that allow the 42nd Street shuttle to leave the confines of their not-so-exciting back and forth run. According to these maps, the only place for Flushing Line trains to leave the track, is to go into the Corona Yard.

Given that, I would also assume this is the only point where new cars can ever be introduced to the line. Correct?

I had to think about this. A few years back the current #7 Line trains were moved to that line from the 7th and Lexington Ave. lines. I'm not sure how they did it.

However there is at least one connection that I know of to the rest of the system. At Queensboro Plaza Station there are crossovers between the 2 upper level tracks at the east (or north) end of the station. I don't recall if there are any other crossovers around that station. But at least that one set exists. And it is shown on a track map of the Queens Plaza area on nycsubway.org. So there you have one possibility.

According to a map I have there once was a crossover at both ends of Queensboro Plaza, which connected the IRT Flushing Line and the Astoria BMT(In the previous post I said IND, ooops). The map also says that "one set of crossovers remains on the upper level as the Flushing Line's only connection to the rest of the system." - Peter Dougherty's "Tracks of the NYC Subway"

Head-end View wrote:I had to think about this. A few years back the current #7 Line trains were moved to that line from the 7th and Lexington Ave. lines. I'm not sure how they did it.

There are basically two ways of doing it: the traditional "long way" with no reverse moves, or the "short way" which is 1/4 the distance (more or less) but requires three reverse moves - best done in the wee hours with two crews.

You are correct that the crossover at Queensboro Plaza is the only connection of the 7 with the rest of the system - and of course it connects to the N-W tracks leading to the 60th Street tunnel. There are two connections between Division B and the rest of Division A: the ramp from the 4 north of Bedford Park into Concourse Yard and the ramp from the 1 between 207 and 215 into 207 Street Yard. (Well, there's also the New Lots-Canarsie connection via the Linden Shops lead, but that requires diesel power, so doesn't really count. And even if it were electrified, it would still be harder and less direct than any of the other routes.)

So first, the traditional "long way." (It's easier to describe a move from the 7 to the rest-of-IRT - to get the R-62's to the Flushing line, just think the reverse.)

From QB Plaza, through 60 St tunnel (using the crossover inside the tunnel mouth since you are wrong-railing from QB Plaza), down BMT Broadway line, bridge or tunnel to DeKalb, down 4th Avenue, either Sea Beach or West End to Coney Island, straight through CI, up the Brighton or Culver to 6th Avenue, over to 8th Ave at either W4th or 53rd Street, then up to either 207 or Concourse Yard. Easy, right? But a long haul.

Now the "short way." From QB Plaza, into 60th St tunnel, stop when rear car clears the switch leading to the Queens Line, reverse into R line tracks, use crossover to wrong rail into the SB platform in Queens Plaza, reverse, proceed via 53rd St tunnel, then either (a) to 34th Street & 6th, reverse on either express track in station using the crossovers between 42nd and 34th, proceed north via 53rd to 8th, or (b) down 8th, reversing in the pocket track between 34th and 23rd, but in either case, up 8th to 207 or Concourse.

It is possible to imagine other, even more esoteric multiple-reverse possibilities (I'm thinking Lex and 63rd), but the one above is the easiest.

The crossover between the 11st cut tracks is gone. the train would enter Queens plaza on the n/b local track. there is a spur north of Queens Plaza to relay south, to head toward manhattan.