How SEPTA should handle the snow storm

I always believe that SEPTA's best routes are the Subway and EL and then the regional rails during snow storms. Buses that need to be detoured and are close enough to a subway or El station should divert to the nearest station and passengers should get free transfers. Push as much travel as possible to the rails. Do not shut down the rails. No OWL buses!!! Continue to run the EL and Subway 24 hours. That should be the rule everytime there is snow emergency.

worldtraveler wrote:I always believe that SEPTA's best routes are the Subway and EL and then the regional rails during snow storms. Buses that need to be detoured and are close enough to a subway or El station should divert to the nearest station and passengers should get free transfers. Push as much travel as possible to the rails. Do not shut down the rails. No OWL buses!!! Continue to run the EL and Subway 24 hours. That should be the rule everytime there is snow emergency.

I like your reasoning. It will never happen though, only because what you said makes sense.

They did announce a new policy for this upcoming storm: Pre-emptive shut down of routes with at least 1 hour notice, rather than the current system of run all the lines until they get stranded.

radioboy wrote:They did announce a new policy for this upcoming storm: Pre-emptive shut down of routes with at least 1 hour notice, rather than the current system of run all the lines until they get stranded.

needs to be two hours, might take people more than an hour to get off work and get to the station after the announcement. subways should run through the night rather than stranding people in the middle of the night.

Sure enough, SEPTA has announced that the BSL and MFL will run all night. There will be 20 minute headways on the MFL and half-hour headways on the BSL.

Its about time they figured out it would be easier to run a train in a tunnel all night than a bus on a snow covered icy street. For the love of Pete, it isn't that hard a concept....for us rational people.

All of this seems much to do about nothing.

I see LOTS of pictures of sweepers, plows and blowers in action in the old days but SEPTA justs decides to shut down.

How did the Pennsy, Reading and Red Arrow handle snow? Better than this I bet!

Probably because people back then EXPECTED them to.

jfrey40535 wrote:Its about time they figured out it would be easier to run a train in a tunnel all night than a bus on a snow covered icy street. For the love of Pete, it isn't that hard a concept....for us rational people.

I agree that it's easier to run a train in a tunnel than a bus on a snowy street, but in addition to train and yard crews they also need station attendants and probably some other bodies.
I'd hope the operating rules allow the owl bus drivers, who're already scheduled to work, to handle a cashier's booth. Or are we faced with the situation that no matter how far in advance SEPTA prepares its contingency plan that they must pay the bus driver to do nothing and still need to get a cashier out of bed and pay extra time and a half?

Trails to Rails wrote: I see LOTS of pictures of sweepers, plows and blowers in action in the old days but SEPTA justs decides to shut down.

How did the Pennsy, Reading and Red Arrow handle snow? Better than this I bet!

I wasn't around in those good old days, but

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Philly-Digs-Out-79758102.html wrote: Sun, Dec 20, 2009
Saturday’s snow storm was the biggest December snow storm ever recorded in Philadelphia history, according to meteorologist Glen “Hurricane” Schwartz, and now Philadelphians are digging their way out of it.

"Only the Blizzard of '96 beat that, with 30.7 inches of snow," Schwartz said.

The record 23.2 inches of snow on the ground also makes it the second biggest snowstorm in all of Philadelphia history.

I understand our recent storm is now the new second biggest, moving December's storm to 3rd place, so that means the Pennsy, Reading and Red Arrow never handled snow like this.

No SEPTA isn't that flexible where owl drivers can turn into cashiers. Union rules prevent that.

Since the subways were the only thing running, they could have skipped the cashiers and run the trains as a emergency only alternative means for transportation last night.


Maybe they should have thought twice about giving this away to a museum. Every snow storm of more than 3 inches shuts down the P&W now.

R3 Passenger wrote:

worldtraveler wrote:I always believe that SEPTA's best routes are the Subway and EL and then the regional rails during snow storms. Buses that need to be detoured and are close enough to a subway or El station should divert to the nearest station and passengers should get free transfers. Push as much travel as possible to the rails. Do not shut down the rails. No OWL buses!!! Continue to run the EL and Subway 24 hours. That should be the rule everytime there is snow emergency.

I like your reasoning. It will never happen though, only because what you said makes sense.

jfrey40535 wrote:Its about time they figured out it would be easier to run a train in a tunnel all night than a bus on a snow covered icy street. For the love of Pete, it isn't that hard a concept....for us rational people.

I take back what I said...

To the R7 I go!

Trails to Rails wrote:How did the Pennsy, Reading and Red Arrow handle snow? Better than this I bet!

A hundred years ago we were still in the middle of a cooling trend. It's now warming up again. Soon it will start cooling again. Everything in its season. But that also means that there simply isn't that much need for snowmoving equipment right now.

SEPTA did an awful job, once again. This new policy of shutting down the entire system is just wrong. I read SEPTA's explanation in the Sunday paper. There needs to be better coordination between SEPTA and the city. SEPTA should run the subway and El 24 hours during any snow emergency. SEPTA should identify critical bus routes and coordinate clearing those streets for buses. For example, C bus city limits to at least Olney, 47 a key north south route, 14 along the blvd. If a passenger is willing to walk at least 10 blocks, they should be able to reach service. People have to get to work, especially the hospitals. Also Shutting down the system at 2pm after the morning news stations said "come to the car show-the trains are running" is just embarrassing.

Trails to Rails wrote:How did the Pennsy, Reading and Red Arrow handle snow? Better than this I bet!
Probably because people back then EXPECTED them to.

And labor was a whole lot cheaper.

In fact, you can explain a lot of differences between the railroading of the "good old days" and the railroading of today with two things: lawyers (including the ones writing regulations) and labor costs.

worldtraveler wrote: ...This new policy of shutting down the entire system is just wrong.
...
SEPTA should run the subway and El 24 hours during any snow emergency.

Where did you get any information that they had shut down the entire system?
I thought I had heard on the radio that SEPTA did indeed run the Broad St subway and the Market Frankford El 24 hours, instead of suspending service midnight-6am when they ordinarily run substitute buses.

SEPTA has improved but still needs work, same can be said for the city.
it's worth noting that

VRE Will Not Operate Service on Monday, February 8.
As a result of power outages and concerns about treacherous road conditions leading to our stations, VRE will not operate service on Monday, February 8, 2010.
At this time of year, many of our trains operate during darker hours. While we have had some melting today, the combination of power outages and icy road conditions could create unsafe conditions for our riders. In addition, the lack of power and icy conditions could affect the railroad switches, causing lengthy delays, possibly stranding trains.
VRE will continue to monitor the power and road conditions over the next 24 hours. We make a decision about Tuesday's service no later than 6:00pm Monday evening.

http://traintalk.vre.org/vre.
also

The Great Blizzard of 1888 or Great Blizzard of '88 (March 11 – March 14, 1888) was one of the most severe blizzards in United States' recorded history. Snowfalls of 40-50 inches (102-127 cm) fell in parts of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts and Connecticut...transportation gridlock as a result of the storm was partially responsible for the creation of the first underground subway system in the United States, which opened nine years later in Boston

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_of_1888