Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

I suppose whoever is managing the local operation for IP could create a company to buy or lease the equipment from IP or the bankruptcy court, bid on the contract and keep the maintenance going + food service, while having Amtrak crew run it.

My only concern with using Randolph as part of a NICTD operation of the Hooiser State would be connecting traffic to other Amtrak services. However, one of my friends in Indiana said 99% of passengers taking the train probably not connecting to other Amtrak trains and if they are, its not same day.

And even if that 1% of passengers is trying to connect, I'm sure they could handle a 1 mile walk, cab ride, or CTA ride (bus or Blue line). That can be done in 15 minutes.

And there is precedent in Boston: Millennium to CUS is slightly shorter than BOS to BON, and similarly easy to transfer.

Alcochaser wrote:As to the station discussion. I guess it depends on what the passengers use the Hoosier State for.

Aren't the towns that sponsor it under the impression that it brings tourists *to* their town *from* Chicago?

Saying that the NICTD makes being a tourist *from* the Indiana hinterlands easier would actually drain leisure dollars out of the cities that sponsor, not a boon.

Arlington wrote:

Alcochaser wrote:As to the station discussion. I guess it depends on what the passengers use the Hoosier State for.

Aren't the towns that sponsor it under the impression that it brings tourists *to* their town *from* Chicago?

Saying that the NICTD makes being a tourist *from* the Indiana hinterlands easier would actually drain leisure dollars out of the cities that sponsor, not a boon.

Chicago and NICTD has been doing that for years and years. Hell look at the weekend NICTD operation. Which does compete directly with the Amtrak Indianapolis service. The South Shore, Dune Park, Ogden Dunes, and Miller parking lots are FULL FULL FULL on the summer weekends. Ive looked at the license plates and many are from counties served by the Hoosier state. Including Indianapolis. Many people drive up 65 and park at the South Shore stations and ride in.

It's easy to see why.
Millennium Station is RIGHT dead center at the Loop. And next to Marshall Fields!
Van Buren Street is actually the best station to transfer to the other Chicago terminals.
Museum Campus/11th Street 75% of the Chicago tourist attractions are off this station.

None of the three would hinder anyone moving outward from Chicago, hell it might even help. And you still would have the Cardinal for a Amtrak/CUS connection.

I would imagine NICTD? could get a deal on the Hoosier State equipment from the bankruptcy trustee if Chapter 7 or 11 happen.

Personally, I think the towns haven't done enough thinking.

WHY TO CONNECT TO CHICAGO:
Access for day tripping *to* Chicago should mean that more knowledge workers can live in Indiana but access high-paid work/consulting/contracts in Chicago. That's good for local real estate prices, homebuilding, & spending power. So I'd suggest that they *not* think that tourism brings any value (it is probably a net loss to them and a net Chicago win) but should instead focus on the general "market-access" and "economic stimulus" that being able to move freely between Indiana and Chicago brings. If there's a *win* for transporting people, it ends up being about workers and students, not tourists.

HOW TO CONNECT TO CHICAGO:
Frequency. Frequency. Frequency. Speed is nice and can save you an hour or two. Frequency saves time in chunks of 3, 12, and 24 hours at a time. Day trips are just too tricky (risky) if your carrier only has one "inbound" (to CHI) and one "outbound" per day. Miss a trip and it costs you a day a hotel and 24 hours (or, really, you take a bus and have someone come get you in Lafayette or IND)T his is my bus point--it must be already that when the train fails some people take a bus. NICTD is intriguing. To meet the "why" above, the "how" I would propose 2 overlapping bus/thruway routes:

THE EASY CITIES along I-65 (AM Inbound, late PM return)
IND-LAF-REN-GRY*-CHI
GRY is an NICTD station and has Amtrak Thruway service.

THE HARD CITY:CRF (AM outbound, midday return)
For Crawfordsville, my bus would run (skipping REN)
IND-CRF-LAF-GRY-CHI

I'd never have a bus stop in both CRF and REN (too much added trip time for too few people...and still I'd give IND & LAF double their current 1x)

If NICDT really even needs them.

I was reminded off forum that NICDT owns some oddball "trailers". What is a trailer?
A trailer is a non powered car that is made to run in between other MU cars. They lack traction motors, lack cabs, and lack center doors for the new high level platforms. They do have pantographs, but only to provide onboard power off the 1500VDC overhead.

The South Shore has always regretted buying these as they have been a complete pain in the arse since built. And since the double decker order they are the last cars to be sent out now.

It probably wouldn't take much to take five of the 11 cars and replace the 1500VDC overhead with a HEP transformer, replace the MU car couplers (easy as they use a standard draft box), and redo the seating from the high cap 132 seat configs.

Then they just need locomotives, such as the ones IP has extra of...

Alcochaser wrote:It probably wouldn't take much to take five of the 11 cars and replace the 1500VDC overhead with a HEP transformer,

You'd cut in to it after the inverter for the HEP - no such thing as a DC transformer.

I bet the subsystems are all 480 3 phase anyway, though the frequency might be up to question - IIRC some mus used weird stuff years ago. And some heat might be straight 1.5kv....

Corridor Capital has noticed the impending "Implosion" of IP.
http://ccrail.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NICTD West Lake will not begin revenue service until at least 2022 ... so I'll leave the arguing over whether the Hoosier State would ever use that route out of this reply. It is kind of pointless to argue about something that is at least five years away.

As for using Millennium Station ... if they use any station other than CUS the train needs to be a daily service separate from the Cardinal. It would be messy having different trains on different days - especially on days where the Cardinal goes one way and the Hoosier State goes the other. What is someone from Indy expected to do? Ride the Hoosier State to Millennium in the morning and the Cardinal home from CUS in the evening? Even a "weekend in Chicago" run would be the Cardinal on Saturday and the Hoosier State on Sunday. As long as the Hoosier State is a fill in for the missing Cardinal days it needs to go to CUS ... same stops as the Cardinal.

Rebuilding some of NICTD's trailer cars has merit (they have 10 trailers that are used on peak trains). but they are fixed seat cars. Half of the passengers facing the rear for 90 miles or less isn't the same as half of the passengers facing the rear for up to 196 miles. Perhaps they could be retrofitted with spinning or walkover seats. (The NICTD bi-levels have walkover seats where the back can be moved to make the seat face the other way.) The couplers would need to be changed as well to connect to a diesel (unless the adapters NICTD uses would work for more than an emergency).

Your middle paragraph assumes one-a-day service. That's not the vision of Midwest High Speed Rail Initiative, is it? And if it is, we're probably talking 2022, if not later.

Thanks, justalurker, I was planning to type out exactly those points, and you caught the fixed seating that I wouldn't have gotten. (Though, Horizons in Michigan Service have fixed seating, or at least the crews have only half the seats facing forward.) The only thing I'd add is that service to Union Station also connects to north and west service via Metra, and that CUS also has many more amenities even at the obnoxious hours of the Hoosier.

Also, NICTD doesn't have operating rights over CSXT.