Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

hi55us wrote:What does the Beech Grove shop provide that couldn't be done in other amtrak yards in Chicago, Washington, Bear, DE ect...

Mr. HI, think of 'Mr. Robinson' saying 'the word' to Benjamin; only this time instead of the word being 'plastics', it is 'heavies'.

The other maintenance facilities you note simply do not have the heavy equipment such as overhead cranes needed to lift a locomotive or car off its trucks. Mr. Dunville, who has had experience in the heavy equipment field, can better enlighten the Forum with Amtrak's needs for this equipment.

While some of course, such as politicians, can say 'you don't fund this train, we will find a new home for those Beech Grove jobs', to move Beech Grove elsewhere is not simply like a 'Hell on Wheels' town. or as earlier noted the Baltimore Colts to Indianapolis.

Finally, we should note that the A-Day Basic System had Indianapolis as 'the crossroads of the Midwest', and Beech Grove did contract refurbishments of the equipment acquired from the railroads. However, from early on as the Penn Central deteriorated, both the Cardinal and the Floridian were rerouted away from Indianapolis on one gerrymandered route or the other. When the National Limited was discontinued during the Carter Cuts of 1979, that left Indianapolis, and hence Beech Grove, without Amtrak service. It was only later that The Cardinal was rerouted through Indianapolis on yet another gerrymandered route.

Well said. I'm hard-pressed to think of other shops with the deep capabilities that Beech has. With respect to locomotive overhaul, perhaps CNIC Woodcrest, Livingston Rebuild, EMD LaGrange, NRE Silvis, BNSF Topeka, NS Altoona, MMA Derby (maybe), B&M Mechanicsville... It's a darn short list, especially after the merger mania. LV's Sayre shops and D&H's Colonie could once do this, but Sayre is gone and Colonie is heavily damaged by fire. With regard to passenger cars, this is "the shop". You have some rebuilding facilities like Metro East in STL and smaller contractors like M&E out in Jersey that do good contract work.

The bottom line is you need 200t cranes (very hard to find a building that can support this - would likely need new build) to lift locomotives, you need to be on/near a major route, and you need 200+ skilled tradesmen. That is a near-impossible wish list. In addition to this list, there's probably plenty of heavy equipment like a forge hammer that could be moved but might cost millions.

My bet is that if Beech closes, most of the really heavy stuff gets outsourced and someone like NRE buys up Beech.

A deal to keep the existing Hoosier State train running for one year has been announced by Gov. Pence, according to the INDIANAPOLIS STAR.

After that, the train's two coaches could still turn into punkins, come midnight.

Pacific 2-3-1 wrote:A deal to keep the existing Hoosier State train running for one year has been announced by Gov. Pence, according to the INDIANAPOLIS STAR.

After that, the train's two coaches could still turn into punkins, come midnight.

Well, let's take one year at a time. This is good news.

I was unable to access the Indianapolis Star article on my iPhone - your mileage may vary - but here is an equivalent article from Indiana Public Media. http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/amtr ... ine-57039/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair-use quote:

Updated 3:44 p.m.

Indiana has reached an agreement with Amtrak and communities along the Hoosier State line to continue running the rail service between Indianapolis and Chicago for at least another year.

The agreement has not been signed, but state officials say once that happens, monthly payments will keep the existing service for one year with an option for an additional four months.

Indianapolis, Crawfordsville, Rensselaer, Lafayette, West Lafayette, Tippecanoe County and Beech Grove are partnering with the Indiana Department of Transportation to fund the service.

(Continued)

Interesting that the localities will also be chipping in. Is this common on other corridors?

mtuandrew wrote:I was unable to access the Indianapolis Star article on my iPhone - your mileage may vary - but here is an equivalent article from Indiana Public Media. http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/amtr ... ine-57039/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair-use quote:

Updated 3:44 p.m.

Indiana has reached an agreement with Amtrak and communities along the Hoosier State line to continue running the rail service between Indianapolis and Chicago for at least another year.

The agreement has not been signed, but state officials say once that happens, monthly payments will keep the existing service for one year with an option for an additional four months.

Indianapolis, Crawfordsville, Rensselaer, Lafayette, West Lafayette, Tippecanoe County and Beech Grove are partnering with the Indiana Department of Transportation to fund the service.

(Continued)

Interesting that the localities will also be chipping in. Is this common on other corridors?

I think the question really is has this ever happened? I don't know of any situation in which a locality has ever chipped in on the operating costs of a train (of course, they've paid for stations). Policy-wise, I'm not a fan of this approach, but it looks like it's bought the HS another year at least/

I believe it's pretty standard for commuter systems, which can be good or bad. Back in the late 60s and even into the 70s, the MBTA was constantly losing service when towns stopped paying for out-of-district service, then gaining as they ponied up. Now that the T has a dedicated funding district, it's pretty constant year-to-year (even with other problems in the budget).

Most commuter systems derive a significant part of their funding from a taxing authority set up in the counties they serve. The mechanism (IE a taxing authority) may not be the same, but the concept is.

To tell the truth, I'm astounded that this got gone. I was convinced that Indiana's governor would want no part of it. Having local governments chip in for the cost is probably unique for an Amtrak train, but most local commuter authorities are funded by some kind of local taxation.
This is a good sign, I hope that Indiana will be able to improve the Hoosier State's tracks and reduce the schedule time. Improving the train's entry into Chicago would be a big help and could easily be accomplished (CN, ex-GTW Munster to Harvey, then CN ex-IC to Union Station, eliminating UP, Metra and NS handoffs).

Too bad the old Monon right of way to Indianapolis no longer exists.

Onward and upward. Illinois has a very successful Amtrak program, Indiana can have one too.

CHTT1 wrote:Too bad the old Monon right of way to Indianapolis no longer exists.

It does:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPR/Green ... Trail.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

CHTT1 wrote:Too bad the old Monon right of way to Indianapolis no longer exists.

It does:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPR/Green ... Trail.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I have a feeling the residents of the northern Indianapolis suburbs would be less than happy were the Monon to be reclaimed. (From what I saw on a recent visit to friends in Carmel, IN, the Monon crosses many roads at grade and runs directly through what were once farm fields, but are now vast subdevelopments.) Best to leave unto bike what bike has claimed, in this case.

On the other hand, there's an unused NYC grade that parallels I-65 from the northwestern side of Indianapolis to the south side of Lafayette. Takers, anyone? (EDIT: my mistake, there's an appx two-mile-long segment marked as the Zionsville Rail Trail in that city, and about a mile of the Thorntown Kewasakee Trail in Thorntown.)

The Midwest High Speed Rail Association will hold its 2013 Fall meeting on Saturday, November 9 at (of all places) the Indianapolis Crowne Plaza.

Dyer won't pay:http://www.nwitimes.com/business/transp ... 7d17a.html

Dyer has ended up as the lone holdout in the state-led deal to rescue the Hoosier State Amtrak route.
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INDOT requested Dyer contribute $5,000 per month to help keep the Hoosier State running, but the town declined, Town Manager Rick Eberly said.
"We just don't have the ridership to justify those kind of dollars," Eberly said.
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Altogether, the communities of Rensselaer, Indianapolis, Crawfordsville, Lafayette, West Lafayette, Tippecanoe County and Beech Grove will put up about half the $2.7 million the state has pledged to subsidize the Hoosier State route, INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield said.
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Can't say as I blame Dyer. It produces 4 on/off's per train (2900 ridership in FY13). Interestingly, Rensselaer, with 2200 ridership was only asked for $1500, and will pony up.

This is the big reason I'm not a fan of town-by-town subsidies for Amtrak. You have to negotiate with everyone individually. Now that Dyer says "no" (and assuming this isn't just a ploy for a lower contribution level) will the Dyer stop be discontinued? From an outsider's perspective, it wouldn't seem a major blow if it were. Even with better service, it's hard to see Dyer moving inton the same Chicago-suburban league as Naperville or Joliet.

Heck why is there a stop with that kind of ridership? For those going into the city, you've got South Shore and Metra options about 30 minutes away. For those going to Indy or Cinci, you probably aren't going to take this train given the arrival/departure times. For those going all the way east, you can take LSL or Cap. Any way you look at it, Dyer is a crummy station concept. No loss there.

The whole idea of having towns that happen to have a station contribute to the operation of the train is just silly. In Dyer's case especially, I would wager most of the ridership is from other towns, both in Indiana and Illinois. Dyer maintains the station and platforms. That's enough contribution. The state should be picking up the entire cost of the Hoosier State. Although ridership at Dyer is low, I think its important to have suburban stops for people who don't want to go to downtown Chicago to catch the train. In addition,Hammond-Whiting should be bought back as a full service stop by both the Lake Shore and Capital limiteds as well as all the Michigan trains.