Here's Irony: Hiawatha Talgos vs. Hiawatha Turbos

I just got this month's copy of FIrst and Fastest, and they did a large special on the Hiawatha trains in response to Amtrak's order for Talgos. One part of the feature discussed the 4-ish years that RTG turbos were preferred equipment. It was noted that they were withdrawn because a Wisconsin congressman thought they were "expensive" and "inflexible" on account of the fixed consist. And we've just seen the order of a fixed consist train for that route. Goes to show you there's nothing new under the sun...

I don't even know if the Turbos were truly fixed consists. Perhaps the French units didn't offer the same flexibility, but the Rohr Turboliners in New York used conventional couplers and were often run as 4, 5, or 6 car sets. Granted, it's still limited if you can't go beyond 6 cars, but then how often does Amtrak add more than one additional car to its various trains anyway? It seems to treat the trains on most off-NEC routes as fixed consists. (Do Hiawathas ever run with more than 6 cars now?)

Matt Johnson wrote:Granted, it's still limited if you can't go beyond 6 cars, but then how often does Amtrak add more than one additional car to its various trains anyway? It seems to treat the trains on most off-NEC routes as fixed consists. (Do Hiawathas ever run with more than 6 cars now?)

I don't know how often, wish I knew. But I do know it isn't impossible to add cars to a Talgo trainset. Most Cascades trains have had an extra coach permanently added since operations started. So it can be done overnight with Talgos, although I'll admit not on a whim during the day because the next train is sold out. But how often does Amtrak add an extra car to a specific train during a day?
The Heartland Flyer usually has a consist of three Superliner coaches, I've seen it with four, and with four plus a sightseer lounge during UT-OU weekend. But it's a planned consist change, not one decided upon a whim because there usually are no extra Superliner cars that can be added in Fort Worth.

If I remember right and of course the engineers on the board can correct me, the Talgo tech that rides the Cascades said to me that its about a 2 hour job to just to decouple a car on the Talgo itself.

If I remember right and of course the engineers on the board can correct me, the Talgo tech that rides the Cascades said to me that its about a 2 hour job to just to decouple a car on the Talgo itself.

European designs are all about the full employment. Also I guess they can afford to have lots of spare trainsets sitting around.

European designs are all about the full employment. Also I guess they can afford to have lots of spare trainsets sitting around.

Beware of generalisations.

AgentSkelly wrote:If I remember right and of course the engineers on the board can correct me, the Talgo tech that rides the Cascades said to me that its about a 2 hour job to just to decouple a car on the Talgo itself.

Two hours to decouple, another hour to insert, and a final two hours to recouple; is five total hours. Which surely is less than an overnight rest in a yard somewhere.

By the way, when was the last time Amtrak added a car to the consist of an Acela train?

weekly, they add geometry car 10003 to the consist of one train for trip up to Boston and back.

DutchRailnut wrote:weekly, they add geometry car 10003 to the consist of one train for trip up to Boston and back.

So it can be done overnight.

on acela it takes about hour to insert the test car and hook it up and test

electricron wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:weekly, they add geometry car 10003 to the consist of one train for trip up to Boston and back.

So it can be done overnight.

I mean yes you are right it can be done in an hour but a lot of times it really doesn't need to be. There are usually a couple of Acela sets OOS in DC for check-ups at any time and it can easily be added in during the check-up period. The car is usually sitting on an unpowered stub track in Ivy City when not in use (don't have the charts on me so I can't give you a specific track letter).

Davis

Jersey_Mike wrote:

If I remember right and of course the engineers on the board can correct me, the Talgo tech that rides the Cascades said to me that its about a 2 hour job to just to decouple a car on the Talgo itself.

European designs are all about the full employment. Also I guess they can afford to have lots of spare trainsets sitting around.

DutchRailnut wrote:on acela it takes about hour to insert the test car and hook it up and test

Apples vs. oranges here (or at least apples vs. pears) - the Talgo cars only have one axle and can only be moved while supported on the one end, while the Acelas have a full pair of trucks under each car and can physically be removed without the train falling apart. Both have semi-permanent cables, drawbars and vestibules to remove, but 2 hours to remove a Talgo car is really not out of line when compared to the Acela's hour.

Matt and Ron bring up a good point - what Amtrak train changes consist with any regularity? Very few that I can think of. Maybe some regionals out east? You'd think with the large pool of corridor equipment around here, they'd change the consists to adjust for demand but it just doesn't happen that often. The only train on the system I know of that is a total consist crapshoot is 371/372, which may or may not have horizons or superliners on any given day.

Occasionally on the NEC I'll see a 9 or 10 car Regional, more typically they are 7 or 8 cars. The longest Regional I've seen has been 13 or 14 cars, but that's rare. Keystones are almost always 4 or 5 cars.

On Amtrak's other corridor services, 5 or 6 cars seems to be the norm. For all the criticism of the Rohr Turbos being fixed consists, I don't think I've ever seen an Amfleet Empire Service train longer than 6 cars,

Matt Johnson wrote:Occasionally on the NEC I'll see a 9 or 10 car Regional, more typically they are 7 or 8 cars. The longest Regional I've seen has been 13 or 14 cars, but that's rare. Keystones are almost always 4 or 5 cars.

On Amtrak's other corridor services, 5 or 6 cars seems to be the norm. For all the criticism of the Rohr Turbos being fixed consists, I don't think I've ever seen an Amfleet Empire Service train longer than 6 cars,

Although we have discussed here about the feasibility of adding/removing cars I wish that amtrak would attach multiple consists together on the talgo and the acela equipment. I'm pretty sure the acela is capable of running with 2 trainsets, where the turbos capable of this? Will the new Talgo's be capable of this?