Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS (Before Launch of Service)

Tommy Meehan wrote:What's not to get?

Connecticut wants to put commuter service on the line. Amtrak doesn't want to do that. In fact by law I don't think Amtrak is allowed to do that.

Connecticut has an agreement with Amtrak. To put in (and pay for) the infrastructure needed to operate commuter service. Double-track, signal upgrades, additional stations, probably more parking.

MBTA, NJ Transit, Septa and MARC have done this all along the NEC, invest in infrastructure on a route they don't own.

CDOT doesn't have an operating agreement yet, they don't need one yet. They're not ready to run trains. But all the parties have agreed publicly (including MassDOT) that they will support this.

What's not to get?

If CDOT want's to put commuter service on the line, then the best bet would be to double and triple track strategic parts of the line, along with the building of new stations in convenient locations for passengers. It wouldn't hurt to install catenary on the line as well in order to seamlessly integrate the line into NEC and allow for a one seat ride from say GCT to Hartford, I believe there's enough pent up ridership this would be a boon to the Connecticut and New York Region. Personally I think anything beyond Hartford should be left to Amtrak.

num1hendrickfan wrote:

Tommy Meehan wrote:What's not to get?

Connecticut wants to put commuter service on the line. Amtrak doesn't want to do that. In fact by law I don't think Amtrak is allowed to do that.

Connecticut has an agreement with Amtrak. To put in (and pay for) the infrastructure needed to operate commuter service. Double-track, signal upgrades, additional stations, probably more parking.

MBTA, NJ Transit, Septa and MARC have done this all along the NEC, invest in infrastructure on a route they don't own.

CDOT doesn't have an operating agreement yet, they don't need one yet. They're not ready to run trains. But all the parties have agreed publicly (including MassDOT) that they will support this.

What's not to get?

If CDOT want's to put commuter service on the line, then the best bet would be to double and triple track strategic parts of the line, along with the building of new stations in convenient locations for passengers. It wouldn't hurt to install catenary on the line as well in order to seamlessly integrate the line into NEC and allow for a one seat ride from say GCT to Hartford, I believe there's enough pent up ridership this would be a boon to the Connecticut and New York Region. Personally I think anything beyond Hartford should be left to Amtrak.

Throw in the kitchen sink while you're at it.

num1hendrickfan wrote:If CDOT want's to put commuter service on the line, then the best bet would be to double and triple track strategic parts of the line, along with the building of new stations in convenient locations for passengers.

They are planning at least sections of double-track and they will be adding stations.

num1hendrickfan wrote: It wouldn't hurt to install catenary on the line as well in order to seamlessly integrate the line into NEC and allow for a one seat ride from say GCT to Hartford, I believe there's enough pent up ridership this would be a boon to the Connecticut and New York Region. Personally I think anything beyond Hartford should be left to Amtrak.

They looked at electrification but it would require a huge amount of extra money which I don't think is available. A one-seat ride to GCT from Hartford? Amtrak might not like that, that could be a problem. At any rate, this is focused on carrying commuters between New Haven, Hartford and Springfield. It's not even clear that Metro-North would be the operator.

I'm reposting the link Jeff put up a week or two ago, a link to the project's website. Maybe there should be a rule people have to read it before they post any messages here.

http://www.nhhsrail.com/

Tommy Meehan wrote: A one-seat ride to GCT from Hartford? Amtrak might not like that, that could be a problem.
http://www.nhhsrail.com/

That's actually hinted upon in the benefits, regional vision, and program updates on that link, so apparently the State of Connecticut is in agreement with that idea. That is in addition to the already direct service from New York Penn Station ( which Amtrak provides ), I'm sure service to New York Penn will be increased as well. I could see the stretch between Springfield and Boston with a stop in Worcester as being viable for high speed running. Although from what I see that is not part of the plan outlined.

num1hendrickfan wrote:

Tommy Meehan wrote: A one-seat ride to GCT from Hartford? Amtrak might not like that, that could be a problem.
http://www.nhhsrail.com/

That's actually hinted upon in the benefits, regional vision, and program updates on that link, so apparently the State of Connecticut is in agreement with that idea.

The website says in the Objectives & Scope section under overview

The new service will connect with existing Metro-North commuter rail and Amtrak Acela high-speed rail service on the New Haven Line to New York and on the Northeast Corridor to New London and Boston...

But you're right they do say, in the Project Update History section

Some direct service from NHHS stations also is planned to both New York Penn Station and New York Grand Central Terminal.

There's two timelines here though. The start-up is forecast for 2016. Full implementation is forecast for 2030. I would think any possible one-seat service from the Springfield Line to GCT is a long ways off. And I still believe that might cause a problem with Amtrak. I don't believe GCT through service is planned as part of the 2016 start-up.

They're also talking about new service to Vermont and Massachusetts. I don't believe that's part of the start-up plan either.

From ConnDOT's perspective the project's primary focus is on serving New Haven and Hartford commuters plus local travel, at least for the start. I think that's undeniable.

Tommy Meehan wrote:There's two timelines here though. The start-up is forecast for 2016. Full implementation is forecast for 2030. I would think any possible one-seat service from the Springfield Line to GCT is a long ways off. And I still believe that might cause a problem with Amtrak. I don't believe GCT through service is planned as part of the 2016 start-up.

They're also talking about new service to Vermont and Massachusetts. I don't believe that's part of the start-up plan either.

From ConnDOT's perspective the project's primary focus is on serving New Haven and Hartford commuters plus local travel, at least for the start. I think that's undeniable.

Thought the Mass/VT service was part of a whole different project-- the Springfield-Holyoke-Greenfield-Brattleboro "knowledge corridor" project that also involves putting the Vermonter back on the Conn River line north of Springfield.

You're quoting me slightly out of context. I was agreeing with another poster that the overall ConnDOT plan is very ambitious. Connecticut is not going to be building rail lines in Massachusetts and Vermont but apparently the plans overlap to an extent. They are all part of what ConnDOT calls an expanded Regional Network. The various states working together -- along with Amtrak -- to build a new and upgraded rail network in the region.

The quote below from the NHHS page is what we were referring to.

Trains serving Vermont (and eventually Montreal), and trains operating to and from Boston on the Inland Route via Springfield, must travel north of New Haven on the NHHS rail corridor. As a result, this rail line serves as the passenger rail gateway to New England. Implementation of the NHHS Rail project is a necessary pre-condition for plans by both Vermont and Massachusetts to substantially increase passenger rail service in New England.

Here's the link-
http://www.nhhsrail.com/objectives/expa ... twork.aspx

I made this a few years ago as a bumper sticker for the PVACR... I'm not sure if the group is still active or not.

http://pvacr.blogspot.com/

Fred G wrote:Do you think they'd just replace the Amtrak shuttle with this new service, or just embellish the existing Amtrak service?

probably just embellish it

The new HSIPR program provided Connecticut and Amtrak the opportunity to rethink plans for the NHHS. Instead of a new commuter rail service, Amtrak and Connecticut have developed a robust mix of intercity and regional trains that would provide frequent service throughout the day along the corridor, permitting passengers to connect to and from Amtrak and commuter trains operating on the Northeast Corridor.

http://www.nhhsrail.com/program_update/history.aspx

Many if not most of these questions are answered on the NHHS web site. There's tons of information.

http://www.nhhsrail.com/pdfs/eapubliche ... out_v3.pdf

Talk here of a potential connection from Bradley to NHHS: http://www.remindernews.com/article/201 ... y-terminal

At an Aug. 2 public hearing at the Connecticut Fire Academy in Windsor Locks, members of the public voiced their thoughts on the project. The first person to speak was William Hein, of Windsor, who has been associated with Bradley since 1983 through his career. “Over a period of time I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly over here,” Hein said. He wanted to give the decision-makers the perspective of a man "on the ground" at the airport, and advised that rail connection be incorporated in the improvements project. “I've traveled to a number of airports, and I've seen what works and what doesn't work,” he said. “What really works is a rail connection.”

He mentioned that a freight line that passes through Windsor Locks stops at Lot 5 in Bradley. This could be extended into the airport for a minimal cost. He said the existing tracks are in good condition and do not need to be electrified if self-propelled cars are purchased.
“It's not going to be a modern airport without rail connection,” Hein said. “Part of Governor Malloy's plan is to get people out of cars and into mass transit. This would be a great way to do it.”

It'll be interesting to see how someone intends to bring rail service to that airport. From Windsor Locks, a train has to go north, then turn off onto the airport spur, then proceed back southish. For service from Springfield, there would have to be a new leg built to make the junction a full wye in order to allow direct service from Springfield. So what is the schedule then? Service from New Haven, service from Springfield, or both? Do the trains run-through in that a train from New Haven serves the airport, then heads to Springfield and vice versa?

My understanding is, that no rail acces was planned for, only a direct bus connection between airport and Winsor locks station.

DutchRailnut wrote:My understanding is, that no rail acces was planned for, only a direct bus connection between airport and Winsor locks station.

Which is all that's needed unless there can be some alternate service patterns. If it's just back and forth between NH and SPR it doesn't make a whole ton of sense. And it's not like Bradley is so busy an airport that it would support a dinky operation.

The spur would work if the @#$% busway weren't there and maybe a subset of trains could be routed through New Britain en route to Hartford, then terminate at Bradley. Or something out of Waterbury/Bristol continuing up to Bradley. Some sort of secondary service pattern beyond the purely linear NH-HFD-SPR. That still would've been years later than the purely linear startup service.


Also, with the Suffield Branch now kaput they really ought to be studying a relocation of the tracks onto a straighter route. Thread between the tobacco fields instead of going around the horn at that sharp Mather St. curve and it knocks a mile, a grade crossing, and one very slow turn off the trip.

Here's some good news:

U.S. Transportation Deputy Secretary Porcari Announces $120 Million for Connecticut to Increase Train Service and Improve Travel Times

U.S. Transportation Deputy Secretary John Porcari today announced that the state of Connecticut will receive $120 million in High-Speed Intercity Passenger Rail program funding from the U.S. Department of Transportation to complete construction on the Hartford segment of the New Haven to Springfield, Mass. passenger rail corridor. Once the project is complete in 2016, 11 additional round-trip trains will travel between Hartford and New Haven, for a total of 17 trains traveling the line, compared to six today.

Full article here:
http://www.fra.dot.gov/roa/press_releas ... 8-12.shtml