Gulf Breeze Mobile - Birmingham - Huntsville - Chattanooga Past and Future?

Bobby S wrote:Well this went way off topic! LOL What happened to the old stations on this route? ex; Montgomery Or were they Amshacks that were taken down?

Montgomery AL survives today as a Visitor Center:

http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_ ... -0127.html

As I recall from my journeys through there (never alighted), there was an impressive train shed; however I cannot locate a photo of such. Amtrak used this station for the Floridian until it was killed Oct 1979, however for the Gulf Breeze, they "carved" an Amshack out of a building located in a freight yard.

A comparatively new, but not necessarily attractive, Mobile station had its "last hurrah" when it was a venue for the 2005 Bush administration's "rationalize Amtrak" initiative. SecTrans Mineta presented the Administration's case there in a public forum. The advocacy/railfan community refers to these roadshows as the "Mineta Dog and Pony Show". When the Sunset East was "temporarily suspended" during August 2005, that was when it last served a passenger train. I understand it has since been razed.

At Birmingham, both the L&N and SRY had their "mausoleums', but were razed prior to A-Day. The L&N built during the early '60's a "functional", yet adequately attractive and of quite contemporary '60's architecture, station, which today serves the Amtrak Crescent. However, there are reports that CSX wants to raze the structure, so i guess Amtrak will have to build a, let's call it, a "one a day facility', likely along the lines of Salt Lake City ("three a day" was what they had in mind at MSP).

hi55us wrote:

JimBoylan wrote:New York State proposed something of this sort of improvement to CSX between Albany and Schenectady. CSX was worried about having to pay the increased taxes on the improved property.

If I where running for president, I would encourage LOWER taxes for having this improved property, although I do realize the predicament that csx and the government is in, if they do it for csx, they need to do it for everyone.

Unfortunately, property taxes are the province of the several States, the most a President can do is try to jaw his way to convince Governors to lower taxes.

Sadly certain jurisdictions (New York anyone) seem to think railroads are cash cows.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Mr. Bobby S, this is the Louisville & Nashville "main line" from the Midwest to the Gulf Coast that was once the route of the Humming Bird from Chicago and the Crescent from New York; during the Amtrak era, the route had service Birmingham Mobile with through Coach and Sleeper from the Crescent. However, the service was discontiunued, I think, as part of the Carter Cuts.

This is a major CSX route, and I'm certain that any new passenger train initiatives would be met with resistance (as I personally think would be the case with any Class I).

Briefly during the 1990s (until 1995), the "Gulf Breeze" ran from New York to Mobile. It rode in combination with the "Crescent" as far as Birmingham. At Birmingham, the "Crescent" and the "Gulf Breeze" would separate, with the "Gulf Breeze" going to Mobile while the "Crescent" continued on to New Orleans. Once Newt Gingrich took command in the House of Representatives, the "Gulf Breeze" was doomed.

At Birmingham, both the L&N and SRY had their "mausoleums', but were razed prior to A-Day. The L&N built during the early '60's a "functional", yet adequately attractive and of quite contemporary '60's architecture, station, which today serves the Amtrak Crescent. However, there are reports that CSX wants to raze the structure, so i guess Amtrak will have to build a, let's call it, a "one a day facility', likely along the lines of Salt Lake City ("three a day" was what they had in mind at MSP).

Being a former resident of the Birmingham area, I think I can give you some insight here: On one occasion, when I happened to be at Birmingham's Amtrak station, I happened to be talking to the ticket clerk and he referred to the current (1990s) station as "the basement of a sugar company". The building where this "basement of a sugar company" is located appears to be more of 70s architectural style. (If it were 60s, being located in Birmingham, it would not have been preserved past 1975.) However, just steps away from this Amtrak station, there is a bus station which looks a lot like a train station. Maybe Amtrak could come to some sort of accommodation with MAX (the transit authority in the Birmingham Area)?

Hopefully this site will be of help with regards to Birmingham:

http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/birmingham.htm

In 1975 I took the Southern Crescent (as it then was) from Birmingham, northwards. I remember a shack type station, and the train had to back in.

People there showed me a picture of a magnificent Union type station that had been demolished - I don't know when.

I remember seeing another station in town at the same time. This may have been on the Illinois Central? There seemed to be several platforms, though obviously rather few trains stopped there. I think there was a sort of rail museum nearby.

george matthews wrote:People there showed me a picture of a magnificent Union type station that had been demolished - I don't know when.

Terminal Station

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

george matthews wrote:People there showed me a picture of a magnificent Union type station that had been demolished - I don't know when.

Terminal Station

By the time I left Birmingham in 2007, the Class Is there were: Norfolk Southern, CSX, and BNSF. I don't recall Birmingham being IC territory anytime between 1977 and 2007. Memphis, where I lived for most of the '70s, was IC territory, though. I think the Union Station in Birmingham was demolished around 1968. And the Amtrak Station is close to being a shack compared to the Union Station.

For all the information on the history of Birmingham railroads that you could ever possibly need, please see http://bhamrails.info/.

For those who want the (relatively) short version, yes there were two Birmingham stations, Terminal Station, torn down in the late 60s or early 70s, and the old L&N station, currently served by Amtrak. The original L&N station was torn down and replaced by a modern version in 1960. For as long as I can remember Amtrak has used the basement tunnels and track access, with a waiting room hidden in the bowels, but NOT the actual 1960 station building. Which about a year ago was finally torn down. There is supposed to be a new "intermodal facility" built in place of the now-demolished 1960 building. The gold-domed bus station is for local transit busses, and the new facility (when and if built) will serve Amtrak and intercity busses. The existing Amtrak station is in the basement of a sugar company in the sense that an agriculture company (ADM, maybe?) unloads corn syrup from tank cars on a lot of the old station tracks. They get quite a lot of tank cars moving in and out.

Interestingly, since Amtrak uses the old L&N station in Birmingham, the Crescent has to cross over from the NS tracks to the CSX tracks to get to the station, and then back to NS on the way out. Since the crossover tracks are slow and not in the ideal location, it adds a few minutes to the schedule, compared to what it would be if the platform were alongside the NS main downtown, instead of the parallel CSX main. Before Amtrak took over the Crescent, Southern used the platforms of the old Terminal Station, even though the big station itself had been torn down. They must have had some kind of pre-am-shack. Using that station required a backup move. Amtrak used the L&N station for the Floridian, so they just kept using it when they took over the Crescent.

In Montgomery, the Amtrak Gulf Breeze never served the old station, but stopped at a platform nearby. A new ticketing and waiting area was built inside the bottom of an unused concrete silo. It's probably still there, but with no train service, obviously. The large Montgomery train shed is still intact - it covers the parking area used by the offices that now occupy the old station.

Finally, the Illinois Central did serve Birmingham. See http://icrrhistorical.org/icmap.html for a map. This was the route of the "City of Miami." NS now operates some of this trackage, a short line operates some of it, and some of it is gone.

Before Amtrak took over the Crescent, Southern used the platforms of the old Terminal Station, even though the big station itself had been torn down. They must have had some kind of pre-am-shack. Using that station required a backup move. Amtrak used the L&N station for the Floridian, so they just kept using it when they took over the Crescent.

That's what I remember. The station was a shack, similar to many others around now. The train backed in. At the time I didn't understand why, as I didn't realise it was a terminal station. I wasn't paying close enough attention as I had other distractions.

Terminal Station, despite it's name, was not a terminal. It was on the north leg of a wye. Tracks going north out of the station lead towards Jasper (NS) and the BNSF yard (BNSF's main line then also goes to Jasper). To the south of the station is the wye - the west leg goes towards Tuscaloosa and the east leg goes towards Norris Yard, with Atlanta and Chattanooga beyond. So in the old days, the Southern Crescent would not have passed Terminal Station on its normal route. It had to use the wye and back in. Or it could have pulled in forward and backed out. A Southern train from Jasper to Atlanta, if there ever was such a thing, would have pulled straight through the station with no back up move.

If the Floridian had been killed one year earlier, or if Amtrak had taken over the Crescent one year later, then Amtrak today would probably be operating out of a shack on the old Terminal Station site, instead of the basement of the old L&N station.

What station does Amtk use in Montgomery ALA?

I have seen a number of photos of an arched trainshed in Montgomery. One caption side Amtrak uses the station. However an empty area with no tracks is clearly visible under the trainshed. What is less clear is whether amtk could stop along side the shed which is passed by mainlines?

Or does Amtk use a totally different location in the city?

T2

Amtrak last served Montgomery AL in 1995 with the "Gulf Breeze"

Here's some information and photos from past Amtrak Stations in Montgomery.
http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/montgomeryal.htm

Well oops on my part. I was more interested in the station building than the train.

This state is out of my knowledge area.

T2

When Amtrak began service in 1971, Montgomery Union Station was a stop for The South Wind, which was later named The Floridian, with service between Chicago and Miami. When The Floridian was terminated in 1979, Union Station was closed. Although The Gulf Breeze stopped in Montgomery from 1989 to 1995, it did not use Union Station but instead a station near a grain silo southwest of Union Station. Union Station was renovated in 2000 and now hosts the Montgomery Area Visitor's Center and an excellent restaurant (Lek's Railroad Thai). The train shed now covers a parking lot for Lek's and the Visitor Center. It is also the home of a historic street car and is well worth a visit if you are visiting Montgomery.