Grade crossing elimination?

What with all the "stimulus" money just itching to be spent on infrastructure, has anyone seriously proposed something like this:

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/gra ... cross.html

NYC did it, why not Chicago?

Chicago already did it. I have read that many years ago the city of Chicago passed an ordinance to require all of the mainlines to be grade separated within the city limits. As a result most of the lines were elevated on a berm or fill. There are still some level road crossings in Chicago, some of them were probably impractical to separate, such as the one north of Union Station where the railroad crosses at a wierd angle and curves. Most of the other crossings I know of are along industrial tracks or on low traffic streets where trains don't tie up traffic very often.

Outside of the city it is usually most economical to elevate or sink the road rather than change the elevation of a railroad unless crossings are closely spaced. A lot of road crossings have been grade separated recently, while some low traffic crossings have also been closed and blocked off. I think local cities and the railroads usually cooperate with the expenses, and sometimes the state if it is a state road crossing.

So I think many crossings will slowly be grade separated over time, the main factor is money, and sometimes a grade separation isn't practical due to the location.

There are still some level road crossings in Chicago, some of them were probably impractical to separate, such as the one north of Union Station where the railroad crosses at a wierd angle and curves.

Actually, that was the first one to come to mind.

Impractical? That only means not enough money.

The Rock Island is at grade south of Gresham. The branch is good for 30 MPH and is nearly street running at 95th street. The mainline is good for 60 MPH and has several crossings within Chicago city limits.

Beverly and Morgan park were suburbs when the ordinance was passed so they weren't included as the areas north of Gresham were.

It's also a branch, I believe branches were exempt but I'm not sure of the particular legal qualifications for "branch" and "main" per Chicago laws. However, the ME branches are at grade as well. I think the law exempted most mains south of 95th as well as anything in the Hegewisch neighborhood (NKP, CSS, CWI) are all at grade as well. Finally, all the MILW and CNW freight branches in along the north branch of the river are in the street. Is the MILW/CP Techny-Bensenville line at grade?

anyone know why Galewood Station to Harlem on MILW wasn't separated?

www.uic.edu/orgs/LockZero/3image/trkHelv2.html

It looks like there were several ordinances that covered grade separation and locations were determined by a variety of factors. The original ordinance that stated the goal of grade separation was passed in 1893. Ordinances that covered specific routes including the transit companies were passed later. Overall I would say it was pretty well accomplished.

Impractical? That only means not enough money.

The Canal Street crossing area might not be that simple. There are a number of high rise buildings, intersections, the Northwestern tracks, and the river in close proximity that would complicate the situation. It would all need to be readjusted, not as simple as just constructing a bridge over the tracks.

Milwaukee_F40C wrote: ... It would all need to be readjusted, not as simple as just constructing a bridge over the tracks.

I'm well aware of that. How about a deep tunnel under the existing right of way that emerges just before Union Station? A tall order for sure. I do appreciate the engineering involved. But all it takes is lots of money.

To say it's not worth the trouble is normal economics.

But if the idea is to stimulate the economy by providing jobs it makes more sense than just paying people to build pyramids or something.

A railroad crossing right downtown? In a "world class" city? I can imagine Mayor Daley pitching the idea even as I type. I can hear his tone of voice. It's for the children.

Passenger wrote:But if the idea is to stimulate the economy by providing jobs it makes more sense than just paying people to build pyramids or something.

Getting rid of grade crossings within city limits is still nowhere near the top of the list of any elected official's priorities. Maybe in the suburbs, as they seem to have more trouble keeping people out of the way of trains. But I can't tell you the last time I remember hearing about someone in the actual city being hit by a train at a grade crossing.

If the stimulus money goes anywhere, it should be toward things like CREATE or any of the multitude of CTA rapid transit extensions which are presently on the table.

Milwaukee_F40C wrote:The Canal Street crossing area might not be that simple. There are a number of high rise buildings, intersections, the Northwestern tracks, and the river in close proximity that would complicate the situation. It would all need to be readjusted, not as simple as just constructing a bridge over the tracks.

Yes, that would be tricky. But I wonder how feasible it would be to transform the Metra/Amtrak line out of the north side of CUS into an open-air trench from Clinton to a point just east of Ogden Ave., making it about a mile long. You'd retain the infrastructure from Ogden Ave. westward, since this is where the ROW currently climbs onto an embankment and curves slightly to the north to parallel the UP line toward A2. Improved train speeds would be the main benefit, but whether that would be worth the construction cost is certainly open to discussion...

Tadman wrote:Is the MILW/CP Techny-Bensenville line at grade?

Both ends, at B17 & A20 are at grade. There are some segments in between on the UP Milwaukee sub that are grade seperated, not sure of the precise locations offhand...

One thing to consider is that the line coming out of CUS North sees only passenger/commuter trains, which generally don't cause long delays or backups like freight trains would. For my money, grade separation is not worth the expense in this case.

Grade crossing reduction & elimination is a great idea. The problem is getting someone to pay for it. There are plenty of freight routes that have grade crossings. The IHB, BRC, & other candidates would be prime candidates. Many of them also cross the busy Metra & Amtrak lines at grade. Part of CREATE should be used to build flyovers or other structures and eliminate these bottlenecks.

Then you have the many lift bridges that are becoming a century old. There has been a huge need for former C&NW lines to be rebuilt. It will take a lot of money & time to do it.

The state is broke. No money there. The city also is broke. They can sell Midway Airport only so many times. They already sold the Skyway, Tollway, Teachers, etc.

The IHB & BRC AFAIK is owned by a collection of freight railroads. Getting so many parties together to make a deal may be impossible. It is so much cheaper & easier for BNSF to rebuild the freight lines out West, the UP to add track to the old SP, etc. Both CSX and NS have other priorities to deal with.

GWoodle wrote:Then you have the many lift bridges that are becoming a century old. There has been a huge need for former C&NW lines to be rebuilt. It will take a lot of money & time to do it.

And that's especially true for the bridges in Evanston on UP/N, but unfortunately, CREATE doesn't address that. But in looking over the plan, there seems to be more emphasis on eliminating grade crossings (i.e., roadways for autos) than on reducing the number of intersecting railroads at grade on Metra's network, and replacing them with flyovers instead. Focusing on the latter would go a long way towards speeding things up for routes like MD-W and HC...

I have some bias since I live right near he UP/North line (when not at college in Washington DC) so I know more about it than the other metra lines. What I do know is that from Ogilvie up to the northern border of Cook County (Braeside) there are 10 grade crossings. The line is grade separated from Ogilvie to Evanston Central, and then it descends to grade level (which it reaches at Kenilworth; Wilmette is on a low embankment), then goes onto an embankment, followed by a trench up to Glencoe. North of Glencoe it is all grade level except for a over/underpasses. In that section there are 6 grade crossings in between Evanston Central and Kenilworth, and 4 in between Hubbard Woods and Braeside.

Getting to the point, if at least most of these crossings could be removed, and in an optimal (but infeasible or practical as well as financial reasons) world, you could end up with a grade-separated, dedicated passenger line (except for a few work trains from time to time, there is no freight on the line south of Lake Bluff) for the first 1 miles to Milwaukee. Note the key terms in that: grade-separated, dedicated passenger line.

All you need is overhead wires and you could end up with true HSR (albeit with some limitations; there is a good amount of freight traffic north of Lake Bluff, so only about 25 miles could end up being true HSR. You would need to add passing tracks to allow trains to go at higher speeds. I know for a fact that three crossings, Oakwood Avenue (Wilmette), Central Avenue (Wilmette) and Forest Avenue(Wilmette), could be removed easily and with little harm to road traffic flow. Three of the crossings are immediately next to stations that are at grade level (Kenilworth, Glencoe, and Braeside). Several other grade crossings have the road rising or lowering by 8-12 feet to reach the rail level; in these cases grade separation would be easy.