Ghost Railroads of the East

Urban D Kaye wrote:My favorite ghost...Wilkes Barre & Eastern. This little coal hauler brought loaded hoppers down the steep grade into Stroudsburg Pa. Lucky the only thing going uphill was empties. The WB&E went under about 1937. Much of the ROW remains, a portion as a hiking trail around Camelback Mtn.

Being a NYS&W fan, I would someday like to extend on my explorations to include this area. I can still see at Dunnfield where the abutments still exist here.

Where do I begin?

CarterB wrote:There are great pics and a good discussion going on about the Ogden Mine RR at this thread:

http://64.78.30.219/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2203

I just finished exploring this area with the help from Mike, who posts on these boards. You can still see some of the ROW near Glen Road and right on Milton Rd a bridge still exists.

My favorite ROWs

1) CNJ- Southern Division from Lakehurst to Winslow Junction
2) DLW-Cut-off
3) L&NE from Pine Island to Hainesburg Jct.
4) L&HR from Limecrest to Belvidere
5) NYS&W - Beaver Lake to Hanford and Beaver Lake to Hainesburg
6) Erie - Orange Branch

Would like to explore the NY&GL.

Is there any evidence of the siding at Cooper that went to the lake? or along the lake from Cooper to 'state line' or 'sterling forest'? Was there a turntable at Sterling Forest?

While traveling on US20/ NY5 yesterday between Canandaigua and Geneva, NY, we passed under an abandoned overpass near a small town named Flint. It is very overgrown and appears to have no deck as you can see daylight as you pass under it.

What line was this and who operated it? When was it abandoned?

flint would be on the PRR sodus bay secondary out of himrod junction ny to sodus bay and was part of the PRRs elmira branch.the coal pier was closed about 1967 but I`m not shure on track abandonment dates.some parts of the line are still in.
charles

While the Pennsy's Schuylkill Branch is fairly well-documented south of Pottsville, it once went all the way to Nescopeck and a connection with the Wilkes-Barre Branch, with some help from trackage rights on Lehigh Valley between New Boston and Tomhicken, Penna.

PRR had extensive coal holdings in the area south of Nanticoke, and some evidence exists that a fair amount of tonnage went south to Philadelphia until some time in the early 1920's, but I have been unable to find much on the actual operation as yet.

My favorite "Ghosts" that I have explored;

The NY&NERR from Franklin, MA to Willamantic, CT, (Via Millville, E. Thompson, Putnam, etc.) and the "Air Line" to New Haven via Middletown, CT.
The HP&F, from Providence RI to Willamantic and out to Hartford and Danbury, as well as the Poughkeepsie High Bridge.
SR&RL from Farmington to Strong, Phillips and Rangely, as well as Kingfield and Carrabasset
Wiscassett Waterville and Farmington from Wiscassett to Albion and from Weeks Mills to China.
The never completed SNE route from Palmer, MA to Providence via Blackstone and Woonsockett, RI
Parts of the B&M in Vermont, north of Montpielier.

I have found Google Earth and Terrafly to be interesting for comparison to old maps.

Last spring, I hiked through the woods near Brimfield, MA (methinks, going from memory at the moment) to walk up to the east abutment of the SNE RR's curved trestle. FWIW, the west abutment is easily accessed from I-90 (Mass Pike) East.

There's a big chunk taken out of the fill about 1/4 mile east of the abutment (access for property owners to get up the mountain the r.r. went around heading east). Alerted to my presence by her dog, I was able to chat with the landowner some. She mentions she keeps the brush trimmed on the fill (indeed, it was easily negotiated, unlike that near west abutment of the Blackstone River crossing in Millville, MA). She also said she tolerates trespassers so long as they're quiet and don't loiter.

Anyhoo, there has been significant erosion right behind the abutment. It's also quite deteriorated in places. I'd estimate ground level was about 150 feet below track level at this point.

I took several slides and digital stills while I was up there. Even though the trees had yet to bloom, there are so many, the Mass Pike is only just visible. The view must've been breathtaking when it was still possible to see from one abutment to the other.

On the west side of the Quaboag River, I found four concrete piers on the highest ground beneath the bridge's alignment. It was fun to stand among these and imagine the steel work that might've stood above that location. I took some photos here, too.

If anyone has an interest in seeing the digital stills, re: and I'll post 'em.

* JB *

Oh, count me as VERRY interested!
NERail photo archive is not a bad place to post.
You might also post to the NYNE/CNE and other ghosts under "Fallen Flags."

The Buffalo & Susquehanna (including portions abandoned by the WAG). the Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern, the Susquehanna & New York, the Coudersport & Port Allegheny, the New York, Ontario & Western. The list fars exceeds these entries.

I have made a database of ghost railroads in New York State. I plan to add information about the status of the rail lines, but for right now I just have the locations. Click on the 'WWW' link below.

csxvet wrote:Here are a couple of really arcane relics that only the hardest-core RR archeologists would want to explore:

First is the famous, or infamous, South Pennsylvania Railroad -- the projected mainline across southern Pennsylvania between Pittsburgfh and Harrisburg. This line, as most historians know, was William H. Vanderbilt's planned invasion of the PRR's mainline territory, and was to include 9 tunnels as well as much heavy grading through the succession of mountains and valleys en route. Work was stopped when it was about 60% complete, and the route eventually became the route of the original Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Many people assume that the Turnpike was built on the old rail alignment, but this isn't so. The Turnpike completed seven of the tunnels, but otherwise it used more direct alignments, since it could use a 3% maximum grade instead of the railroad's standard of 1%. So all through Fulton, Bedford, and Somerset counties one can find evidence of the line's grading, including cuts, fills, and culverts. One of the better-known relics is a large fill at Geiger, PA, three miles north of Somerset, where the SP crossed the B&O's Johnstown branch. At this point the SP had to build a short tunnel for the B&O to pass under its fill, and the tunnel still remains.

The only part of the South Penn that actually had a railroad on it was the Pittsburgh, Westmoreland and Somerset that eventually ran from Somerset to Ligonier and used some of the South Penn's alignment. It went thru Quemahoning Hill, about a mile west of S'set on the turnpike. The bore is still there, next to the T'pike which goes thru the same ridge in a cut next to the old tunnel. You can find the eastern portal pretty easily; the tunnel itself is full of water and bats.
Supposedly the South Penn finally ended when Pierpont Morgan took Vanderbilt and Thompson to sea in the 'Corsair', and said they wouldn't be going back to port till the two settled their hash.
Malley

It's true that Morgan forced a deal on the famous "Corsair" cruise, but the event has been overplayed and misinterpreted. Actually, Vanderbilt had been trying to get out of the project for some time earlier, and probably would have happily written off his own investment at that point. But he was, in fact, only a one-third shareholder in the South Penn syndicate, and he had to pacify the other syndicate members (most of whom were Pittsburgh industrialists and Reading directors) by getting their money back for them. The problem was that PRR president George Roberts (not Thomson) had properly sized up the situation and wasn't about to pay them off. Morgan's little "cruise" was made with Vanderbilt's encouragement and was aimed entirely at Roberts, who was finally gave up at about the time the yacht docked at Jersey City that evening.

Incidentally, Vanderbilt wasn't on the trip. He was in bad health (one reason he was ready to quit the project) and sent lawyer Chauncey Depew, NYC's president and a close Vanderbilt associate, to do the negotiating. Depew was a wily negotiator and worked over Roberts while Morgan sat back, smoked his cigars, and offered occasional tactical advice and support..

As it worked out, the deal between PRR and NYC blew up afterward. PRR was to take over the entire South Penn property, but the state of Pennsyvania brought a lawsuit claiming that it violated the state consitution, and eventually won its case. The South Penn then went into a kind of limbo, and some of the Pittsburghers and Reading people (who felt Vanderbilt had betrayed them) tried to revive it. The issue wasn't finally settled until 1904, when the B&O (then under PRR control) bought the property, split it with a PRR subsidiary, and effectively neutralized it for all time.

Balto-
Thanx for sorting me out on the correct characters involved in the 'sea cruise'. Sounds familar now that you say it, tho' it doesn't make quite as good a yarn!
It is my understanding that, had the South Penn acutally been built, it would have been a 'loads uphill' proposition for most online customers.
In any case, it is eerie to see its trace in the hills around Somerset. An S curve on Red Goose Road is actually a 'grade crossing' on a non-existent rr.
Malley