Future of Market East/Gallery?

Patrick Boylan wrote:Suburban Station, what's Girard Square?

the block across the street from the reading terminal headhouse.It is owned by girard trust but was leased for 99 years a few years back. the current owners are drawing up plans which, last I heard, included a retailbuilding on market sq.

Making the station look less like a giant bathroom with all the weird tiles, fixing the climate control so it's always pleasant vs too hot or cold, and making street access easier would improve any thing's chance of working in the gallery space.

The only successful malls are ones that have gone through painful contraction of leased spaces and come back with new, fresh tenants in those spaces. I think that is what needs to be done here. Total gut re-model, bring in some classy, quirky, unique, interesting retailers that people actually want to visit, and there you go.

Could always make it an extension of the Convention Center so that the Carpenters union can chase even more convention business out of Philadelphia.

bikentransit wrote:Despite being the center of the rail system, the Gallery is a dump inside and out. Its ugly and should be bulldozed. K-mart moving out is a step in the right direction. As Clearfield said, maybe it will vacate some of the less desirable clientele. It never really caught on the way the planners thought it would, in terms of attracting suburban shoppers, who continue to prefer Cherry Hill, King of Prussia, Oxford Valley or Neshaminy Malls, all easily accessible by car in a family-friendly environment.

Center City is being inhabited by more and more affluent young people, who do not want to necessarily drive to a suburban-area to do their shopping. Many want to see the entire Market St. East redone with more upscale shopping, not the dollar stores and City Blues seen there now. The Gallery isn't to be redone necessarily to attract people from outside the city; it is being redone to attract those who live/work nearby (and the newly-announced Comcast building, with it's 3000-4000 well-paying jobs moving just a 5 min train ride away, adds to the pressure to re-make this area to attract those dollars).

Clearfield wrote:Could always make it an extension of the Convention Center so that the Carpenters union can chase even more convention business out of Philadelphia.

Ha, ha.. I was thinking the same, sadly.
It seems to be a somewhat ideal location. Its hard to believe how difficult it is to get Market East to prosper after all these years and all the efforts put into it.

SCB2525 wrote:within direct access of Philadelphia's worst neighborhoods

There are far worse neighborhoods in Philadelphia than those adjacent to Market East, or those along the MFL.

Suburban Station wrote: what an arrogant post. what planet do you have to live on to think KMart, purveyors of reasonably priced underwear, charcoal, soap, detergent, etc was bringing in "undesirable" clientele" I suppose you must make enough money to have servants.

Among the big boxers, Kmart falls squarely in the middle between Walmart on the low end and Target on the high end.

The variety of sneaker stores and weave shops and the food court that the Gallery offers is the source of the problem.

radioboy wrote:...

The variety of sneaker stores and weave shops and the food court that the Gallery offers is the source of the problem.

I've been through the gallery many times. while it's painfully dated I don't find the lower level store selection to be a source of problems. cheesesteaks, radio shack, toy r us express, children's place, etc. the upper levels are terribly designed. poor street access, the levels don't match up evenly (kmart on the east side dumps you off "mid floor" which is just stranger, and how do you get in kmart from the ground floor?). it's like the architect escaped from an insane asylum. to make matters worse, market east is home to the family court and methadone clinics. the gallery is mostly empty on the upper floors. it's basically a very successful transit concourse with a failed mall on top of it.

tiles in market east-not sure what they were thinking, those tiles only make sense from a distance say, from street level, but when you're standing on the platform the pattern is hard to see. seems like the wrong art for the space. I do hope they fundamentally change the structure from the ground floor up and renovate the concourse. would be nice to see a more seamless transition between the city (now septa) concourse and the gallery as well

Suburban Station wrote:to make matters worse, market east is home to the family court and methadone clinics.

Well, those places have to exist, and being served by transit helps the people who need to go there. The inbound 101 trolley from Media around 3PM weekdays is filled with people who spend the whole time talking about their former lives of crime and how their rehab is going. As an amateur fiction writer, listening to them fascinates me, but I can see how their presence might make some passengers uncomfortable, but affordable transit is just what those people need right now.

I thought NJT's Riverline was the place for people who spend the whole time talking about their lives of crime and how their rehab is going. And I wish it was former, but many of the conversations I overhear sure sound like the activities that required their entry into rehab, or jail, are quite current.

Suburban Station, for over a century City Hall, and now across the street from City Hall, house the criminal courts. What do you think their presence does to the neighborhood?

Patrick Boylan wrote:I thought NJT's Riverline was the place for people who spend the whole time talking about their lives of crime and how their rehab is going. And I wish it was former, but many of the conversations I overhear sure sound like the activities that required their entry into rehab, or jail, are quite current.

Suburban Station, for over a century City Hall, and now across the street from City Hall, house the criminal courts. What do you think their presence does to the neighborhood?

brings river line customers downtown to trash the rite aid. hard not to notice how much nicer 12th and walnut is since the methadone clinic moved to market east.

25Hz wrote:Making the station look less like a giant bathroom with all the weird tiles, fixing the climate control so it's always pleasant vs too hot or cold, and making street access easier would improve any thing's chance of working in the gallery space.

What planet do you live on?

Suburban Station wrote:brings river line customers downtown to trash the rite aid. hard not to notice how much nicer 12th and walnut is since the methadone clinic moved to market east.

I can't figure what you're talking about.
Do you mean the Riverline brings its customers to downtown Camden to trash downtown Camden's rite aid? They must do it on the 1 or 2 days per week that I work from home, because I haven't seen a large percentage of people running from the Riverline to the nearby drugstore, and I'll take your word that it's a rite aid. And if your opinion is that the Riverline is the only source of potential unsavory characters for Camden's drugstores, that kind of disagrees with others who've complained that the Riverline brings Camden's unsavory element to the suburbs.

I never knew there was a 12th and Walnut Philly methadone clinic. When did it move? It's hard for me to notice any difference over the decades, when I volunteered for http://pceh.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Philadelphia Committee to End Homelesness in the 1990's it was a busy corner for our street outreach, which we attributed to the northwest corner's Wendy's and generous seating at the northeast corner's raised flower beds.

Patrick Boylan wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:brings river line customers downtown to trash the rite aid. hard not to notice how much nicer 12th and walnut is since the methadone clinic moved to market east.

I can't figure what you're talking about.
Do you mean the Riverline brings its customers to downtown Camden to trash downtown Camden's rite aid? They must do it on the 1 or 2 days per week that I work from home, because I haven't seen a large percentage of people running from the Riverline to the nearby drugstore, and I'll take your word that it's a rite aid. And if your opinion is that the Riverline is the only source of potential unsavory characters for Camden's drugstores, that kind of disagrees with others who've complained that the Riverline brings Camden's unsavory element to the suburbs.

Patrick Boylan wrote:I thought NJT's Riverline was the place for people who spend the whole time talking about their lives of crime and how their rehab is going. And I wish it was former, but many of the conversations I overhear sure sound like the activities that required their entry into rehab, or jail, are quite current.

[quote="Patrick Boylan"
I never knew there was a 12th and Walnut Philly methadone clinic. When did it move? It's hard for me to notice any difference over the decades, when I volunteered for http://pceh.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Philadelphia Committee to End Homelesness in the 1990's it was a busy corner for our street outreach, which we attributed to the northwest corner's Wendy's and generous seating at the northeast corner's raised flower beds.

it moved maybe five years ago. it was in a low rent office building that was otherwise completely vacant (a good indicator or how many tenants want to share space with a methadone clinic). that building is now apartments with a chipotle on the ground floor. you're thinking about 11th and walnut. the wendy's is still there but jefferson renovated the northeast corner. I also lived five years a block from project home facilities and never had any problems so it may well be the quality of the organization but I would certainly fight to block any methadone clinic from my neighborhood unless it was affiliated with a reputable organization.

radioboy wrote:

SCB2525 wrote:within direct access of Philadelphia's worst neighborhoods

There are far worse neighborhoods in Philadelphia than those adjacent to Market East, or those along the MFL.

Or Broad St Line? Or trolleys and buses? Or Patco? All one seat rides.

That about covers all of Philadelphia AND Camden, and the Gallery is smack dab in the middle.

Suburban Station wrote:

radioboy wrote:...

The variety of sneaker stores and weave shops and the food court that the Gallery offers is the source of the problem.

I've been through the gallery many times. while it's painfully dated I don't find the lower level store selection to be a source of problems. cheesesteaks, radio shack, toy r us express, children's place, etc. the upper levels are terribly designed. poor street access, the levels don't match up evenly (kmart on the east side dumps you off "mid floor" which is just stranger, and how do you get in kmart from the ground floor?). it's like the architect escaped from an insane asylum. to make matters worse, market east is home to the family court and methadone clinics. the gallery is mostly empty on the upper floors. it's basically a very successful transit concourse with a failed mall on top of it.

tiles in market east-not sure what they were thinking, those tiles only make sense from a distance say, from street level, but when you're standing on the platform the pattern is hard to see. seems like the wrong art for the space. I do hope they fundamentally change the structure from the ground floor up and renovate the concourse. would be nice to see a more seamless transition between the city (now septa) concourse and the gallery as well

I totally and completely agree with all of this, and especially the part about transit hub with failed mall on top, and the tiles.

Many malls have recently undergone facelifts. This one, and the station need one too. And the k-mart access and street acce NEEDS to be fixed. You come up against a dagnabbed glass wall where there should be a door in multiple places.