Feb 8-9 nor'easter...

25Hz wrote:Yea, and it's right off the river, which means during a storm you have big wind gusts. They should have shut all hoboken service or terminated at broad street/secaucus.

Few years back i was walking from the PATH to the light rail station during a noreaster, and i could barely walk against the wind. The wall by track 1 does help a bit, but it doesn't block everything.... All kids of trash and grit and dust was swirling around and there were countless broken umbrellas (from the wind) in the trash cans... :\

You're joking right? Why would you want to terminate at Broad Street or Secaucus for reasons already mentioned. Why would you shut down Hoboken service when there's no need to do so?

beanbag wrote:

sixty-six wrote:

25Hz wrote:Yea, and it's right off the river, which means during a storm you have big wind gusts. They should have shut all hoboken service or terminated at broad street/secaucus.

Few years back i was walking from the PATH to the light rail station during a noreaster, and i could barely walk against the wind. The wall by track 1 does help a bit, but it doesn't block everything.... All kids of trash and grit and dust was swirling around and there were countless broken umbrellas (from the wind) in the trash cans... :\

The building blocks most of the wind, most you'll get is a gentle breeze (source: I've actually worked in Hoboken during storms). And if you terminate service at Broad/Secaucus, how do you get Hoboken-based crews back to Hoboken? Where do you store all the equipment? Where will the crews rest? Where do evening crews sign up? Thanks for coming in.

Not even just that, terminating trains at broad street would cause an epic bottleneck, it's only a 3 track station, serving three lines, you can't expect it to serve as a realistic turnaround point. You'd have trains stacked up for miles waiting for a platform, and that's before getting into what sixty-six even said about crew and equipment storage logistics.

Exactly....

As far as newark broad station... The 3 tracks go down to two before going east over the bridge. There is an interlocking right there that can be used to turn trains. The station has clean functioning bathrooms and the light rail is right across the plaza as are several bus routes.

Seacacus has food, clean bathrooms and large enclosed area for waiting. There you can connect to other trains, and if you need to get to hoboken take PATH from newark penn, another station with food bathrooms and indoor waiting areas.

When hoboken terminal flooded a few years back they did this and it worked fine. I took the light rail to newark penn from newark broad after taking the go 28 from the airport (was planning on going to take some photos at the terminal) and PATH to pavonia/newport where i walked to target instead.

What exactly am i missing here that makes this idea (that has been used before) impossible now?

Call the Whaaaambulance 25hz... Hoboken during a snowstorm is not all that bad. The terminal can handle it and so can the railroad. Its been done in the past and will continue in the future. I think it has been said enough that the reason the M&E and Montclair / Boonton line trians were annuled was due to the failed substation / lack of diesel equipment to cover all lines into / out of Hoboken plusthe inability to continue running trains into NYP (which may or may not have been based on Amtrak's snow storm policy). Had the substation not been taken out, M&E and Montclair / Boonton trains would most likely have run on these lines in and out of Hoboken. After all, they did on the Main/Bergen/PVL.

I grew up on the M&E and had plenty of snowstorm experience that dropped as much if not more than this storm did - I think of hte blizard of '96 (thats January 1996). I remember leaving my dad's office on 23rd st in Manhattan, walking in the middle of 23rd st to the PATH station (The plows were out staying as much on top of the streets as they could and there was 0 street traffic. The sidewalks on the other hand were covered in 10+ inches of snow). Trains in and out of Hoboken were operating as normal, despite the heavy snow conditions. We got to Maplewood on schedule and made our trek up the hill to our house.

I just read a news archive about that storm, memories can be fallible if not refreshed!

First, the storm struck in the predawn hours on a Sunday, January 7th 1996 and snowed all day. By nightfall NJ Transit was having serious problems and, along with Amtrak, had shutdown operations on the NEC. Governor Whitman declared a state of emergency on Monday the 8th and NJ Transit operated a limited schedule.

It was noted that on Tuesday, when normal operations were resumed, thirty-six hours after the snow stopped falling, electric lines with catenary had far less problems than lines with third-rail.

I remember being at church in Chatham NJ that morning and the snow starting. It was comming down at a good clip when we left for the city from Maplewood that afternoon (1:00 ish...) and by nightfall was very heavy. I never said things were perfect.... But things were still operating into and out of Hoboken that evening as we were on our way home. The monday limited shcedule was probably a weekend schedule into/out of Hoboken on the M&E (as well as other lines on the Hoboken Division) as that seemed to be the MO back then. Midtown Direct was still a few months off, so NEC issues did not affect the M&E back then.

While in the nostalgic mode, in the winter of 1966-67 there was a large snowfall that progressed throughout the day. I was a freshman at NCE (now NJIT) and had taken the bus and PATH to get there from home in Bayonne. By the late afternoon PATH had stopped running Newark - Journal Square because the 3rd rail was buried, as had buses.

Took the PRR to NYP, then the subway downtown and the CNJ ferry to JC Terminal and then the CNJ train to Bayonne West 8th. The train was so packed that the crew could not open the traps but allowed the first willing few passengers to jump off into a 3 or so foot snowdrift until there was room to open the trap. Walked the rest of the way home as I recall. Quite an event.

I remember the blizzard of '96 as I was out helping to plow and shovel it. It was one of the worst snowstorms I can remember. What a night shoveling out snow it was!

Here's a record -- click here -- of the area's heaviest snow storms.

The one in 1996 lasted from the predawn hours on Sunday the 7th into the early afternoon of Monday the 8th. (My previous message I said it ended Sunday afternoon but that was wrong.) I also went to the city (on a Metro-North train) Monday afternoon just as the storm was ending. The third-rails were completely covered with snow and only diesel trains were operating. The city was an absolute mess.

Don't forget, that 1996 storm was a blizzard. That means, not just snow but heavy winds and frigid temperatures. That's what made that storm really tough.

I took my drivers test at Eatontown DMV on January 8th, 1996.......THAT was an experience....hahahaha. I was kinda far away from the curb with the parallel parking, but because the amount of snow plowed next to it, the instructor gave me a pass

Jtgshu wrote:I took my drivers test at Eatontown DMV on January 8th, 1996...

Could that have possibly been on the 9th? I just read a New York Times story published on the 9th that said all New Jersey state offices were closed on the 8th (a Monday).

I remember getting up early on the 9th. I had no Internet connection then, in fact I don't think I had a computer. (Hard to believe, right?) But I had TV

I saw Gov. Pataki of New York declaring the state of emergency was still in effect and he said he was "urging all New Yorkers to stay off the roads and give our crews time to clear them." I called my factory job and (unexpected) my Boss picked up the phone. He was definitely Old School. He said, "Yeah where are you, I need you here." I said but "Boss, there's still a state of emer..." He cut me off and said, "Yeah we're working. Come on man." I usually took the bus and my car was BURIED anyway. I went to the Tarrytown train station -- this was about 8 30 AM -- only to find Westchester's Bee-Line buses were not going to start running until 10 00 AM. Then one of the Rockland TZB Express buses showed up, heading to White Plains. In those days they ran on 119 in Westchester, not 287. I asked the driver if I could get to Elmsford. She wasn't too happy about it (I discovered later that the TZB buses were not supposed to carry passengers solely in Westchester) but she let me on.

The bus left me off about a mile from my job and a passing UPS worker -- UPS and my company were located in the same industrial park -- gave me a lift the rest of the way.

I noticed my Boss smiling when he saw me clocking in. Believe me, that made it all worthwhile!

Maybe it was the 9th, but i remember it being the 8th....well whatever, either way there was lots of snow around!!! Made lots of cash shoveling it tho!