Ex-Canadian ALCO units - status/performance

NOEL apparently worked the ex NYC from Selkirk to Buffalo a fast, relatively flat railroad. I worked on the ex PRR side from Jersey City to Harrisburg/Enola a high speed railroad but some stiff grades and two westbound helper districts. The first from ZOO in Philly to Paoli and from Thorndale up to Parkesburg and even further up and over the A&S branch. My recollection of the six axle Century Alcos was their ability to run at slow speed in coke, iron ore and coal train service. The few occasions I had them head out on a freight train they were O.K. but all their trouble seemed to occur at high speed. It was a crap shoot if they would make transistion electrically allowing the train to accelerate to a higher speed and once you got up there( 50-60 mph ) ground relay trouble might force you to isolate the engine for the rest of the trip.
On the PC all mineral trains had a maximum speed of 30 mph and here the Alcos shined. Most of our piggyback trains that were diesel powered had a combination of SD-45 and SD-40 power. Back in 1974 they started running diesels straight thru to the Meadows on Mail 8,9,10 and 11. Power was usually SD-45s and we ran them 80 mph. They only van trains assigned four GP-40s were TV-79 and TV-10, when TV-10 ran as solid meat train from Chicago to Weehawken via the Penn side. So to answer the question it was EMD 95% of the time on the hotshots on my side.

I saw some of those ALCos on Sunday. One of the ALCps has OINK scratched into the rear paint. I do not know why the New York Susquehanna & Western got rid of its B40-8s, leased its SD70Ms to a railroad that I heard is trashing them, and did not buy more tunnel motors. It looks like the New York Susquehanna & Western has financial issues.

STAR TREK 40th Anniversary

2. I know 3660 has it (someone else made the O into a Q) and it isn't in the paint, it's in the dirt.

Here's 2 of the SD70Ms on the I&O this morning. Must not be too trashed.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=268093

[quote="U-Haul"]I saw some of those ALCos on Sunday. One of the ALCps has OINK scratched into the rear paint. I do not know why the New York Susquehanna & Western got rid of its B40-8s, leased its SD70Ms to a railroad that I heard is trashing them, and did not buy more tunnel motors. It looks like the New York Susquehanna & Western has financial issues.

Last Thursday during the nice whether was down in Bingo 3668 was there and 3660 as well say what you will I like to hear them run.

Zeke wrote:NOEL apparently worked the ex NYC from Selkirk to Buffalo a fast, relatively flat railroad. I worked on the ex PRR side from Jersey City to Harrisburg/Enola a high speed railroad but some stiff grades and two westbound helper districts. The first from ZOO in Philly to Paoli and from Thorndale up to Parkesburg and even further up and over the A&S branch. My recollection of the six axle Century Alcos was their ability to run at slow speed in coke, iron ore and coal train service. The few occasions I had them head out on a freight train they were O.K. but all their trouble seemed to occur at high speed. It was a crap shoot if they would make transistion electrically allowing the train to accelerate to a higher speed and once you got up there( 50-60 mph ) ground relay trouble might force you to isolate the engine for the rest of the trip.
On the PC all mineral trains had a maximum speed of 30 mph and here the Alcos shined. Most of our piggyback trains that were diesel powered had a combination of SD-45 and SD-40 power. Back in 1974 they started running diesels straight thru to the Meadows on Mail 8,9,10 and 11. Power was usually SD-45s and we ran them 80 mph. They only van trains assigned four GP-40s were TV-79 and TV-10, when TV-10 ran as solid meat train from Chicago to Weehawken via the Penn side. So to answer the question it was EMD 95% of the time on the hotshots on my side.

My last ten years were spent on a pension job between Selkirk and Buffalo
on the former New York Central but my earlier years were spent all over
the place. I worked various lines on the former New Haven and some of
them had pretty heavy grades and some really heavy trains in the past
too. I also worked the River Line of the former New York Central and that
is anything but a "water level route". Had every possible kind of power
while working the River Line.
I also worked Amtrak and Metro-North electric and diesel trains.
Noel Weaver

Will NYSW ever see the SD70's again in ny/nj?

2005Vdub wrote:Will NYSW ever see the SD70's again in ny/nj?

Considering that they are on long term lease to the I&O and that their 15 years trusts should expire in 2010, I sincerely doubt it.

Interesting point. I've begun to wonder whether the EMD SD 70 design will become the SD 40-2 of this decade. Even after the first 15 years, will these things soldier on indefinitely? On one hand, the 80 and 90 designs seem to be unsuccessful. On the other, was EMD still capable of making a workhorse like the 40's, or did they reduce durability to compete with GE?

Nice pix, Midland Sub. You shoulda approached me, while I was there, I would have rode you the whole line, if you wanted! The electrical cabinet fire was repaired, and the blown up power assemblies replaced on the 4050 and the 4054. You don't see, in those pix, however, the destruction done to the interiors of the cabs. The collision damage to the rear of the 4050 is also not viisible, where the crossover/catwalk area is crumpled, and deformed. The I&O pays for those locos, whether they are running, stopped or dead. It begins to look bad, when your $7K a month locos are all parked outside the McCullough shops, dead. The accountants don't understand these things, and I wouldn't either. Locos in pix are also not necessarily locos that load, will make track speed, or are even running!!! You have seen enough stuff being towed up and down the Midland sub by now, to know this first-hand. Reading the other "stuff" in this thread, I again wonder why someone calls them "things"? Is he a new engineer, on the "Q", who never ran anywhere else, and has a closet fetish for huge EMD or GE modern stuff? Those SD-45's died every night of the week, back when I was there, in the mid to late 80's. We didn't run out of Bingo, with 8 units on a train, just for the buffs, I can assure you. The mountain will claim trains, until that railroad is no more, as long as diesel maintanance is deferred, and tonnage ratings are ignored. There is no way to dispute this, no matter how much you want to see other power on that grade. Alcos are haulers, and they need a masters touch, just like any other machine. As far as words from the sage, Noel Weaver, his work is a solid accounting of a "real" railroaders career. I often follow his threads, reading and learning. I have never found a reason to dispute his info. It is concise, and correct. Some people might not enjoy the taste of the truth, but he speaks it. Those who are not in agreement are entitled to their opinions, but listening to a scanner from the sidelines wouldn't qualify someone to carry my grip, to the locos. If you haven't "been there, and done that", you can't really bring anything to the table, other than a novices opinion. I am not speaking to anyone in particular, but you cannot dispute a master, as someone even lower than an apprentice. Zeke's words hold the same weight, in my book, as well. The old heads (sorry guys ) have forgotten more, than most of us will ever learn. Enjoy the chance to be on the "inside" of a discussion like this, it's not usually spoken to "outsiders", for the reasons I have seen above. Regards

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Nice pix, Midland Sub. You shoulda approached me, while I was there, I would have rode you the whole line, if you wanted! The electrical cabinet fire was repaired, and the blown up power assemblies replaced on the 4050 and the 4054. You don't see, in those pix, however, the destruction done to the interiors of the cabs. The collision damage to the rear of the 4050 is also not viisible, where the crossover/catwalk area is crumpled, and deformed. The I&O pays for those locos, whether they are running, stopped or dead. It begins to look bad, when your $7K a month locos are all parked outside the McCullough shops, dead. The accountants don't understand these things, and I wouldn't either. Locos in pix are also not necessarily locos that load, will make track speed, or are even running!!! You have seen enough stuff being towed up and down the Midland sub by now, to know this first-hand. Reading the other "stuff" in this thread, I again wonder why someone calls them "things"? Is he a new engineer, on the "Q", who never ran anywhere else, and has a closet fetish for huge EMD or GE modern stuff? Those SD-45's died every night of the week, back when I was there, in the mid to late 80's. We didn't run out of Bingo, with 8 units on a train, just for the buffs, I can assure you. The mountain will claim trains, until that railroad is no more, as long as diesel maintanance is deferred, and tonnage ratings are ignored. There is no way to dispute this, no matter how much you want to see other power on that grade. Alcos are haulers, and they need a masters touch, just like any other machine. As far as words from the sage, Noel Weaver, his work is a solid accounting of a "real" railroaders career. I often follow his threads, reading and learning. I have never found a reason to dispute his info. It is concise, and correct. Some people might not enjoy the taste of the truth, but he speaks it. Those who are not in agreement are entitled to their opinions, but listening to a scanner from the sidelines wouldn't qualify someone to carry my grip, to the locos. If you haven't "been there, and done that", you can't really bring anything to the table, other than a novices opinion. I am not speaking to anyone in particular, but you cannot dispute a master, as someone even lower than an apprentice. Zeke's words hold the same weight, in my book, as well. The old heads (sorry guys ) have forgotten more, than most of us will ever learn. Enjoy the chance to be on the "inside" of a discussion like this, it's not usually spoken to "outsiders", for the reasons I have seen above. Regards

Thanks very much, I needed that one.
Noel Weaver

Of course, I would also be in the "doghouse", if I failed to mention the likes of LCJ, an excellent study in all aspects of flanged wheel transport, as well as MXData, an invaluable source of all things electro/mechanical. These are my "go-to" guys, when I need to learn about anything on the railroad. My own 24 years pale in comparison, with the likes of these guys. Want a quick lesson about anything mentioned? Look up one of these guys, in the profiles section under their names, and read the posts they have made. A quick and easy way to get all the info you need, if you have the time to read. Regards

Just giving credit, where credit is due. Only too happy to oblige, Noel. regards

RichM wrote:Interesting point. I've begun to wonder whether the EMD SD 70 design will become the SD 40-2 of this decade.

many people think it has already happened!
I have heard the SD70 referered to as the "SD40-2 of the 90's"

and yes, I believe the SD70 can also be considered the SD40-2 of the 00's

(the decade is more than half over, and we still dont have a good name for it..what were they calling it in 1906 I wonder??)
next decade can be the "teens"..then we are back to the 20's, 30's etc..
the media hasnt even latched onto a trendy catch name yet for this decade yet..weird.

"the music of the 80's"
"the fashions of the 70's"
"the SD40-2 of the".......what???

Scot

Golden-Arm,

Where are you working at now if I may ask? The I&O certainly has one of the most diverse fleets around. I personally like to see the SD70Ms and the former SP SD45T-2s. 4052 seems to have very dark tint on the engineer's side of the cab windows, is this normal?

My two cents for what it's worth on the Alcos is this. After talking to several engineers and hearing their experiences it seems there's a lot more to this than who built the locos. Maintaince or the lack of makes a giant difference in how something performs. We can all agree that those Alcos came from a very difficult operating conditions i.e. extreme winters and heavy loads. So far Cartier to get as much use as they did they had to been maintained to excellent standards. But let them sit for 2 years and that makes a huge difference. Take your own car and let it sit untouched for 2 years and then start driving it again as hard as you can and watch the problems appear. Then try and fix everything yourself. More than likely those Alcos are worn out, but there's still more to it than the average railfan can understand. I feel bad for the crews when the power is failing right and left, though I agree with Golden-Arm and enjoy it while it last.

You are right about the I&O's power. They're using CF&E 3888 on the WCH-A and it has a very loud clicking noise. One of the SD40's, 4084, always has a hood door open and a rag wrapped around something.

[quote="GOLDEN-ARM"]Nice pix, Midland Sub. You shoulda approached me, while I was there, I would have rode you the whole line, if you wanted! The electrical cabinet fire was repaired, and the blown up power assemblies replaced on the 4050 and the 4054. You don't see, in those pix, however, the destruction done to the interiors of the cabs. The collision damage to the rear of the 4050 is also not viisible, where the crossover/catwalk area is crumpled, and deformed. The I&O pays for those locos, whether they are running, stopped or dead. It begins to look bad, when your $7K a month locos are all parked outside the McCullough shops, dead. The accountants don't understand these things, and I wouldn't either. Locos in pix are also not necessarily locos that load, will make track speed, or are even running!!! You have seen enough stuff being towed up and down the Midland sub by now, to know this first-hand.

Let me see if this makes sense.

4 axle - 2 stroke locos (e.g. EMD) are good for expedient mainline service.
6 axle - 4 stroke locos (e.g. Alco, GE) are good for 'drags', lugging of hefty tonnage.

Question - where do the following fit into the scheme?

4 axle - 4 stroke locos
6 axle - 2 stoke locos

Are both equally suited (or thereabout) for secondary and mainline manifests?