EP-3 Electrics

Well, the cover story in the latest issue of Model Railroader was very interesting, especially the way the author managed to fit a heavy electric mainline and several branch lines into a relatively small space. You'd never know from looking at the photos that the layout was basically two side-by-side overlapping ovals. It's inspiring, to say the least, and really demonstrates what can be achieved with careful track planning.

Also inspiring was the fact that he had a great collection of New Haven motors in HO scale, all brass of course. But it got me thinking, and I did a little research about the boxcab electrics in his photos. I was pleased to find that the EP-3 shared almost the same running gear as the GG-1, and in fact provided the basis for the PRR's version. In turn, the EP-3 had been inspired by the CUT/NYC P-1A/P-2B electrics. I was able to find and compare drawings of the GG-1 and P-1A, but not the EP-3. The NH Historical Society's list of their publications included magazines with plans of the EP-2, EP-5, and others.

So I'm wondering if anyone knows of books or websites that may include drawings of these motors. I know there have been plenty of books on the New Haven, but since descriptions are usually somewhat vague, it would be helpful if someone knew specifically where I could find drawings.

Having grown up in Boston knowing nothing other than Amtrak and MBTA, I sometimes wish I'd been born a few decades earlier to have seen the mighty NH in action...

I am planning to kitbash a EP-3 on a GG-1 frame, is this what you have in mind also? I don't have any drawings either, so if you find any, please let me know..
So far I've collected a dozen of pictures of EP-3's from the internet, these could be enough since I'm not a rivet counter, but a drawing shurely would help.

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Tomas Stanislawski, Sweden

I wouldn't say "planning," it was more like an idea that struck me. I've also found a number of pictures, but no definite source for drawings yet. I did check the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association's website (www.nhrhta.org) and they have several books for sale, one of which covers the electric motors and MU cars and says it's "profusely illustrated." That may just mean lots of photos, though. The NHRHTA has a message board also, so I think I'll post this question there too. I'm sure many of them are familiar with the NH books that are available.

I saw your other post in the HO forum about the GG-1 chassis. I know almost nothing about it, but I think it's powered by two motors. I don't think there would be too much trouble fitting it into an EP-3 body, since the main difference is the length, and there doesn't appear to be anything mounted above the end platforms that would interfere.

It doesn't look like it would be all that hard to scratchbuild a body either. I'd use laminations of styrene, with rivets embossed and windows cut out. The only real tricky part is figuring out all the roof details. I don't model the NH, so I'd only tackle this project if I managed to find a GG-1 for a very cheap price.

I saw your other post in the HO forum about the GG-1 chassis. I know almost nothing about it, but I think it's powered by two motors. I don't think there would be too much trouble fitting it into an EP-3 body, since the main difference is the length, and there doesn't appear to be anything mounted above the end platforms that would interfere.

It doesn't look like it would be all that hard to scratchbuild a body either. I'd use laminations of styrene, with rivets embossed and windows cut out. The only real tricky part is figuring out all the roof details. I don't model the NH, so I'd only tackle this project if I managed to find a GG-1 for a very cheap price.[/quote]
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Hi, guys. One of these days, when I have some time, I'll try to help out, as I have modelled G's and EP's for over 30 years and am starting my latest (and last - I am 64 years old) PRR/NH electrified layout. For now, there is one subtle difference between an EP3 or the streamlined carbody version (EP4) and a GG1: two feet of overall wheelbase. The GG1's extra 2 feet (79'+) is entirely in the spacing between the pilot trucks and the first main driver of each mainframe. Main and pilot truck wheelbases themselves are identical for each loco. An added detail: you'd have to add the third rail DC fusebox and shoe detail to each pilot truck sideframe, which means removing the GG1's outside brake cylinder.

Of all the NH electrics, only one had identical overall and individual wheelbases as the GG1: the AC-only EF3, used only on freight and occasional Penn jobs. It did not have the DC gear, of course, but still lacked the GG1's pilot outside brake cycinder. The EF3 also had 57" drivers like the GG1, while the EP3/4's were 56". In fact, Westinghouse quoted the EF3's in a GG-like carbody format, while GE quoted their own prior EP3/4 format with a lengthened EP4 carbody. Eventually, all 10 came with the GE format but the order was split 5/5 between the two builders.

It is often said that the only externally visible difference between an EF3 and an EP4 is the shortewd side vent screen on the EF3. A real careful look at broadsides of the two will also reveal the subtle difference in length and in spacing between main and pilot trucks, and also the placement of the cab side steps to the roof ahead of rather than behind the cab door on some of the freight units.

Too bad that Alpert trashed the EF3's, only to wish later that he hadn't. They were the exact age as the last (1941-1943) GG1's, had truly identical running gear, and after the shutdown in 1969 of the ex-NH electric freight service by PC, could have joined the ex-VGN EF4's down in Wilmington, where I'm virtually certain that they could have been minimally adapted to be maintained interchangeably and MU with the remaining G's (perhaps except main blower gear), certainly in freight and maybe even in passenger service. They actually had a couple hundred horses more power than the G's, but that was largely due to the lower-speed gearing.

Bottom line, yeah, you can do an EP3 on a GG1 chassis. Have fun with the framed, louvered side vent panels. By the way, the EP3 always was and still is my favorite loco to this day of any type on any RR, followed closely by the earlier B-W EP2 1-C-1+1-C-1 motor. I have them all (EP2/3/4), modified with my own lost wax sideframes and drives, in HO scale, along with two Lambert frame-modifed GG1's and three of the best, by far, HO GG1 I have ever seen - the Broadway Limited Import (BLI) version. They need no work whatsoever!
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Tompaah wrote:I am planning to kitbash a EP-3 on a GG-1 frame, is this what you have in mind also? I don't have any drawings either, so if you find any, please let me know..
So far I've collected a dozen of pictures of EP-3's from the internet, these could be enough since I'm not a rivet counter, but a drawing shurely would help.

--
Tomas Stanislawski, Sweden

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Tomas, fortunately I've been around for quite some time, and back in 1960, I received a set of electric locomotive side elevations from the then-existing NH engineering depatment. One is an EP-3, drawing No. 24789, Rev. D. I just joined yesterday, so once I learn how to post scanned images, and complete a client report, I'll post it. I'll have to scan it in two halves, as my table is not large enouch to scan in one piece with reduction. Funny, but in 45 years, this is the first time I will have scanned one of these.

In the drawing, you'll see reference to EP-3a and EP-3b. That refers to oil-cooled (Pyranol, today a no-no) vs. air-cooled main transformers, as the 3b and 3a variants, respectively. All 27 EP2's (300-326) were delivered air cooled and remained so to the end. All six EP4's (360-365) were delivered and remained (as the GG1's) Pyranol-cooled. The EP3's were delivered air-cooled and gradually converted to Pyranol through 1952, adding the a,b suffixes during the process to distinguish. After 1952, when all EP3's had been converted, the a,b was dropped again. The only external difference between the two subclasses was the battery box, which was moved out onto the "porch" in the conversion process. The first two EP3's (351, 353) went just a few years later, together with the first two EF3 AC-only's.

Hope this helps. Charlie

I have photocopies of the NHRR diagram for the EP-3 available. Contact me off-list. [email protected]

There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of detailed drawings out there but GE Review, 1931 page 200 has a few dimensions and the schematic. All they gave for size was the cab at 60’0” length, 10’0” max width and 12’ 4.5” height, 14’6” over pan along with the running gear measures.

The key running gear dimensions for the 3 locos are:
......................................................CUT P1......... NH EP-3.......PRR GG1
truck wheels.......................................36”...............36”..............36”
drivers................................................48”...............56”..............57”
truck wheelbase..............................8’ 0”.............8’ 0”.............8’ 0”
nearest truck axle to first driver......7’ 0”.............6’ 4”............7’10”
drivers center to center...................7’ 6”............6’10”............6’10”
#3 to #4 driver...............................9’ 0”...........10’ 0”...........10’ 0”
truck centers................................61” 0”...........58’ 0”...........61’ 0”
pulling faces.................................80’ 0”...........77’ 0”...........79’ 6”

The CUT and NH dimensions were chosen to fit local bridge load limitations.

It looks easy to adapt a GG-1 frame, cut out 1’6” between the truck and the first driver, add 0’3” between the truck and the pilot. Or cut out 1’3” and move the truck in 3” (okay, all too close to matter).

Bill

Hi All,

Suggestions: An Internet search for a source that carries such models. Also check with your local hobby shops. They might just know where one model can be located. In the extreme case, they just might have one on the shelf. Another possibilty, the hobby shop can steer you to a source for obtaining the engine you desire. By the way, I believe I have seen such a model, in O gauge at the Train Stop, San Dimas, CA. They have a website and might just be able to steer you to an HO gauge model.

MTH made these engines in O-Gauge/Scale. They look and run great.