DL&W electrifcation questions

I heard awhile back that NYC(via 3rd rail), Lackawanna and PRR(via overhead wiring) could've electrified to Chicago. Why wasn't this done back in their hey day? If this was done this would be the longest electrifed rail corridoor and you'd see not only Acela trains but more service.

This would certaintly be longer then the NEC. It would've been intresting if the PRR, Lackawanna and NYC electrifed tha far out west.

The tracks from NYP-Chicago would probably be a 4 track ROW with conctete ties like the NEC and used just as frequently.

''I heard awhile back that NYC(via 3rd rail), Lackawanna and PRR(via overhead wiring) could've electrified to Chicago.''


The Lackawanna did not own any trackage west of Buffalo so I'm not sure where you heard that. Also, by the time of the E-L merger both roads were on the verge of bankruptcy so I think it would be safe to say that a monumental capital project such as a nearly 1,000 mile electrification to Chicago was not in the corporations foremost thoughts.

But what about the PRR and NYC?

They weren't rolling in $$$ either....one of the reasons they merged.

In the thirties the Pennsy used all the resources it had available to electrify between New York and Harrisburg. There was talk of extending the electrification westward, but WWII intervened. After WWII, diesels made electrification less attractive, and PRR's finances rapidly deteriorated.
The Lackawanna never used its electrification for freight. It didn't have any electric locomotives--it only used its electrification for its commuter MU trains. The Lackawanna's electrification was planned in the 20s. Probably by the time it was done in 1931 management regretted spending the money. After WWII no northeastern rr had any money.
I know nothing of any planning on the part of the New York Central to extend its commuter electrification or to use it for freight service.

New York Central electrified because they had to by law to enter Manhattan. Same situation for LIRR, PRR, and New Haven. NYC chose to electify to Croton because they were required to stop there anyway, and there was room for the necessary yard.
When the Putnam Branch operated it was not electrified and passengers had to change trains in the Bronx.
As pointed out in prior posts, electrification would not have been cost effective for these roads.

Didn't the Lackawanna have a small freight electric operation around West End?

Some research in Taber corrected my earlier assertion that the Lackawanna had no electric locomotives. In the thirties it had two "3 way" electric locomotives for transfer runs between Hoboken, Secaucus and Harrison. They ran on the 3000 volt catenary from Hoboken through the Bergen tunnels. Catenary was strung on one Boonton Line track west of the tunnels for a couple of miles. In non-electrified territory, the engines could run on storage batteries or on the output of a 300 hp diesel generator. These unusual electric engines proved impractical and were replaced in a few years by steam engines.
Despite the brief existence of these 2 engines, the Lackawanna never planned to extend its electrification or to use regular electric engines in through freight or passenger service.

The CNJ's last batch of passenger cars, acquired around 1930, were designed in anticipation of electrification. But the depression killed the ability to finance the project.

There was a brief consideration in 1940/41 and again in 1945/46 for electrification as far west as Scranton. It never really got out of the engineering department and brief discussions with the senior management. The DL&W management was moving a lot of coal tonnage, and saw the economies the Pennsy was enjoying with its electric expansion in the 30s. The start of the antharcite traffic decline (as well as coal field/mine depletions) in 1946 made them think twice about it. On top of that were all the other capital expenditures that were needed at the time that took priority (dieselization, fixing up the physical plant after the war, and upgrading long distance passenger equipment). The DL&W was heavily debted from old M&E bonds that sapped the company badly. An entirely another scenario would have played out for this neat company if a) it had gotten rid of that debt through voluntary bankruptcy in the 30s and/or b) it did not have New York Central management on its board of directors.

for none of the road electrifying beyond what we have seen: 1) the depression slowed business enough as to have the respective boards hesitate and 2) the rise of the diesel, especially after WWII. As GM-Standard Oil and others beat the drum of petroleum based transportation, electric was doomed.