Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

Who was this past customer?

How can it be that the bridges were just “ok” when two were completely replaced three years prior? Your right about the ties. Not very many good ones in that section. Last tie replacement was in 2004 from Lakehurst to Second Street in Lakewood. I think they ran a ballast regulator and tamped the new ties as well. I imagine that cost will be higher now considering the washout at Whitesville among other things.

So, who is this customer you speak of and what were they gonna move by rail? I can’t imagine Conrail forking over 8 million for someone small. Was it one of the asphalt plants on 547? Only other big people there besides Clayton that could use rail.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:01 am In 2018 a past rail customer in Lakehurst ( not Sand) was inquiring about resuming rail service. Conrail estimated the cost would be $8M The conditions of the three bridges was noted to be in "ok" condition. Tie conditions was the biggest culprit, plus needing a new crossing and protection at Whitesville Rd. Ultimately the customer did not go ahead with rail service again, but Conrail knew what it would take .

I remember hearing bout that. Continued shipping with trucks after CR gave them a $ amount.

5 years'll change a lot on the rr. Saw this yesterday. Look for a hi rail with clearing just enough of Lakehurst-Lakewood for the hi railer in September October. It won't be a complete clearing. Only a prelim clearing to run a yearly track patrol. None of this'll have anything to do with restoration of service or bringing the line back up to specs.

For the record, these asphalt plants you speak of like many others out there DON'T get rail service cause it's not as flexible as trucking their materials. Most don't use enough raw material to justify the cost of rail.

Who was this potential customer?

Also, how could getting the Lakewood-Lakehurst line up to specs cost $8M+??? The FIT and SOUS connection+upgrades, per the FY21 and FY23 rail grants, cost around $10M, and that's literally clearing, scraping, grading, and rebuilding of 5+ miles of track, and doing all the crossings for them as well.

Lakewood-Lakehurst shouldn't need a complete rebuild, from the grading to the complete replacement of the tracks.

As CR7876 said, it mainly needs ties. The last tie replacement was in 2004 and they only did every fourth or fifth tie. It’s possible that the track has substantially gotten worse in other areas since the last big brush clearing in 2015. Some brush was cleared a few years ago for JCPLs power poles.

Another big problem is the washout near the Whitesville bridge. Ballast is gone on one side for about 30-50 feet.

Yes, but shouldn't that NOT cost $8M+ to fix?

I’m not sure. The line is in bad shape, yes. But it’s not like Farmingdale to Freehold where everything is in need of replacement.

CR7876, did that estimate include the cost of the customers rail siding? Any word on how long it would’ve been?

JohnFromJersey wrote:Yes, but shouldn't that NOT cost $8M+ to fix?

Conrail has more mouths to feed than a shortline does.

JohnFromJersey wrote:Who was this potential customer?

Department of Defense .

Very interesting. Wonder what they had in mind. McGuire-Dix does get a lot of flatbed trucks loaded with green crates which I assume is ammunition.

I also remember hearing in late 2019 that Earle was looking to ship contaminated soil off property by rail. In November of that year I had a chance to talk to some Navy guys who were in my vocational school one day. I asked them about what I had been hearing and they said that the Earle property had a large amount of contamination somewhere and they were considering how to get rid of it, but no plans had been finalized. They said removal by rail was on the table.

Never heard anything after that so I guess they either didn’t bother with the toxic waste or cleaned the soil on site, kinda like the old Tom’s River Chemical site. Either that or they shipped it out by truck.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:52 pm

JohnFromJersey wrote:Yes, but shouldn't that NOT cost $8M+ to fix?

Conrail has more mouths to feed than a shortline does.

JohnFromJersey wrote:Who was this potential customer?

Department of Defense .

Fair. I would assume that a shortline would have more incentive to charge that much, than a large(r) operation like CR...

If it was gonna cost $8M+ for CR to get the DoD service, I can't imagine how much it would have cost CR to rebuild Freehold to Farmingdale.

As for the DoD getting service, that was a common topic mentioned in those NJTPA reports that pass through here from time to time.

I'm surprised they didn't get the government to pay for them, given how large the military budget is, and how little $8M is compared to that.

I wonder if that would be on the table again with C&D...

Not sure. I think circumstances vary but if it’s military/DOD trains I think the crews need a certain qualification? When they pulled the dirt trains outta Lakehurst that was the case AFAIK. Only certain crews were actually allowed to move those trains.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:46 pm I'm surprised they didn't get the government to pay for them, given how large the military budget is, and how little $8M is compared to that.

Makes sense for their customer to cover the costs, rather than NJDOT or USDOT grants.

Was U.S. Navy-Earle involved in the Freehold-Farmingdale project, as this would allow Earle a second interchange
route via Freehold, without relying on NJT and the Coast Line?

Well, the customer here, is the government. The US military to be exact. They have a significant amount of money to play around with, and they are directly the government, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to get government grants if need be.

I do not think Earle will get service after this. Recent discussions concerning them revealed that the main purpose of Earle is to decommission old ammunition, and they typically ship out the discarded ammo via truck. Maybe they could do it via train? It doesn't seem like they are shipping out that much discarded ammo...

CR learned their lesson from Earle's shenanigans not to trust the government to pay you. Per their big shots there, they'll never again use outside rail. Rail isn't effective for their operation. They were looked at as a potential customer and that's a dead end.

The Lakehurst project is over. Per one of our guys familiar with the project it was to resume the shipment of contaminated materials from an old nuclear missile base that exploded in the 60s. The site's been cleaned up. There's no more work to be had from it.

Was that was the shipments in the 2000s were? Something about nuclear contaminated dirt from a warhead that was underground????