Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

Would seem to me sand by train would make some sense only for that part of the tunnels under dry land in NJ. For the under water part, barge would be much cheaper. But still need to get it to the barge, wherever that comes from. Clayton Woodmansie site probably not in that mix, though they seem to have plenty still available at their site..

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:46 pm First and foremost, from the many years that sand train rumors have flooded around this forum, I was under the impression that if sand trains were to happen for the Gateway Tunnels, the sand would be shipped by rail to the construction site, where it would be mixed into concrete/used for whatever directly at the site. If that's the case, how would trucks play in there?

Even if you were to ship the sand to a site which, per the plans, would be across a highly-used double tracked main line, you would need to truck the mixed concrete to the site of the tunnel then as the work progresses, continually truck the concrete into the tunnel until it's completion. If looking at that East River tunnel that LIRR did, the tunnel was constructed well before any tracks were laid. I can put money on this being done in the same manner.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:46 pm Not sure why NJT is so annoyed with a 1-2 times a week freight train, but that's just how it is.

NJT hasn't expressed any disgust with us about operating over their territory. When we call in to the Chief, they are polite and very accommodating to us. We've inquired about this "NJT is annoyed" talk and they'd stated the exact opposite. It's only one person saying this nonsense and that one person is here consistently posting inaccurate information on these forums. Let's please drop the NJT is annoyed by freight talk once and for all.

Um.....about NJT.....

When u, as a crew member, looking get permission to occupy NJT track, you're talking to the dispatch office. OF COURSE the are polite. They are just workers for the RR as u are. They have no beef with you are whatever comes along. They are there just to handle the traffic. I know its unusual for New Jersey, but maybe they are just nice ppl.

I know there are some grumpy dispatchers out there, but they have no beef with whatever trains need to be handled either. They are just grumpy old men who complain about EVERYTHING.

If u really want to know how NJT feels about handling freight, you have to ask someone in the Ivory Tower....and who knows if they would be honest with you anyway. Lying is part of their job.

@pdtrains This. It’s the ivory tower people who are complaining. Dispatchers have complained too but circumstances vary as you said. Besides it’s not like Conrail hasn’t given them reasons to be mad.

Remember this incident??

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5732496

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zWJq19u1J4KzifEw7

pdtrains wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:56 am Um.....about NJT.....

When u, as a crew member, looking get permission to occupy NJT track, you're talking to the dispatch office. OF COURSE the are polite. They are just workers for the RR as u are. They have no beef with you are whatever comes along. They are there just to handle the traffic. I know its unusual for New Jersey, but maybe they are just nice ppl.

I know there are some grumpy dispatchers out there, but they have no beef with whatever trains need to be handled either. They are just grumpy old men who complain about EVERYTHING.

If u really want to know how NJT feels about handling freight, you have to ask someone in the Ivory Tower....and who knows if they would be honest with you anyway. Lying is part of their job.

We've met with those "ivory tower" folks plenty of times, officially and unofficially. Trust me. They're NOT complaining about freight on their territory. Even though incidents like that door in Red Bank have inconvenienced them, they've got no issues with freight. You mention the lying, we know theirs politics involved. There a whole lot more behind the curtains. Again, trust me, they're not complaining.

Also, look at your source of the "complaining" comments, the fact that this source is the same source who gets all this information bout businesses wanting rail but they turn the railroad away. The fact that this source has direct conversations with those ivory tower peeps is about as believable as steam engines coming back to replace all these modern diesels and electric engines.

1 car for Woodhaven tomorrow…

If there’s no problem with freight then why is the state giving C&D all this money for Farmingdale to Freehold? If there’s no problem then why even bother??

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:30 pm If there’s no problem with freight then why is the state giving C&D all this money for Farmingdale to Freehold? If there’s no problem then why even bother??

They gotta burn the money on something. 10 years ago it was NJSLs turn

Enough arguing about if NJT likes or dislikes freight on their lines! Ace MaxSD you might be right or maybe you are wrong. Same with Bracdude 181. and Wolfgang5150. This is getting out of hand. Change the topic away from this--Thank you, David

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:30 pm If there’s no problem with freight then why is the state giving C&D all this money for Farmingdale to Freehold? If there’s no problem then why even bother??

They want to run passenger service on it at some point. That point probably won't be anytime soon, but its on the grand plan.

You mean New Jersey Transit? I can’t see them doing MOM until after the new tunnels to NY Penn are built and that’s years away.

MOM or some version of it will have to happen. The Central and Southern parts of NJ are becoming unbearable in terms of traffic, especially during the summertime. Not to mention the absurd amount of high-density housing they are putting up...

I know one of the big issues with MOM was deciding whether to use catenary or not. It restricts freight cars' height, and putting up catenary is pretty expensive at the start, but saves a lot of money long-term when you use electric trains that don't need fuel or a lot of the maintenance that diesels need.

Also, there are a few weight restrictions on some bridges NJT between South Amboy - Red Bank that would be far more expensive to mitigate than reactivating ~5 miles of abandoned trackage. There is a height restriction on the Southern between Farmingdale - Red Bank (Tinton Ave bridge to be specific). None of these will be an issue once freight can move through Farmingdale-Freehold and bypass South Amboy - Red Bank completely.

There’s an article somewhere that says NJT was gonna have it Red Bank to Lakewood with one station in Farmingdale, and that they’d do electric trains. Estimated the cost of new track, stations, and catenary wires would be $110 million. This was in 2014.

I would much prefer someone besides NJT run passenger trains down here. I literally do not care who, just not NJT.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:25 pm I would much prefer someone besides NJT run passenger trains down here. I literally do not care who, just not NJT.

Maybe someone like CalTrain will step in…. Have em Run the sand trains under the catenary

Good ol' Caltrain, would you like that with Amtrak or Herzog (TASI) lanyards on the employees?