CSX Activity in New England

railman616 wrote:Walpole is still in use. B732 out of Framingham brings inbounds for Readville down and drops them off on TK 6 for one of the Readville jobs that brings down the outbounds that b732 takes to Framingham after swithching Foxboro Terminal.

Ok it might be bad timing on my part anyway at least the yard is still being used. Does anyone have updates on why that gatx car is still at the certainteed plant or if csx is serving them with the strike still on?

Are there any plans to transfer things between G&U and CSX in Milford? Or only in North Grafton? The Wikipedia article on the G&U says they have CSX service on both ends, but I didn't know anything went on down the Milford end.

BostonUrbEx wrote:Are there any plans to transfer things between G&U and CSX in Milford? Or only in North Grafton? The Wikipedia article on the G&U says they have CSX service on both ends, but I didn't know anything went on down the Milford end.

There is a csx local that goes down to Franklin and serves garlick farms (spelling?) and one more company. It might be the same one that uses the east Walpole industrial track, I think it's based out of readville as well.

The southern half of the G&U,from West Upton to Milford is still out of service so there is currently nothing going on down there. And while advertising that second CSX connection is harmless I doubt that much will ever be interchanged in Milford. All of CSX's general boxcar freight comes in on the B&A for Framingham . Sending any interchange to the G&U via Milford would require a needlessly circuitous routing when a direct connection with the B&A is available at No.Grafton.

pharmerphil54 wrote:The southern half of the G&U,from West Upton to Milford is still out of service so there is currently nothing going on down there. And while advertising that second CSX connection is harmless I doubt that much will ever be interchanged in Milford. All of CSX's general boxcar freight comes in on the B&A for Framingham . Sending any interchange to the G&U via Milford would require a needlessly circuitous routing when a direct connection with the B&A is available at No.Grafton.

At the rate G&U's going they should at least be getting test trains to Milford by this fall. They're exceeding expectations on how fast they got operable track to Hopedale and the start of the new yard complex there.

As for Franklin, if we're on the fairly logical assumption that CSX is going to turn over the Bellingham and Milford business to G&U, then it's also logical they'll open up Franklin runaround in the agreement as a potential interchange. But one that'll hardly ever get used because it's a whole lot more convenient to get it all delivered to their doorstep in Grafton. But it looks real nice for business to have +1 interchanges advertised on a system map, so I don't see what the harm is even if it'll be very unusual conditions if any cars ever get dropped off at Franklin runaround. Works nice as a future contingency, and again looks good as a phanton "on-paper" interchange.

I would be shocked if CSX gave up Franklin Industrial Track, though, and ended service south of Walpole. Too much of a long-term exposed flank if the Franklin Line ever got reconnected at Blackstone to P&W in the 20+ year range. Going to Franklin once a week is small insurance to pay for keeping G&U permanently landlocked. I could see the exact same thing happen with MassCoastal on the Old Colony. Let them vacuum everything north to Braintree then hand-deliver at Middleboro to make that run shorter for CSX and more efficient per same carload. MC would be fully landlocked at Braintree with a second seldom (if ever) used interchange point there, and CSX can run the Fore River interchange on a much shorter jog from Readville.

Where is the right of way to the P&W south of blackstone.

Mbta fan wrote:Where is the right of way to the P&W south of blackstone.

http://g.co/maps/hwmce

Franklin Line used to be the NYNH&H Air Line going all the way to New Haven by way of Franklin, Blackstone, Putnam, Willimantic, Middletown, and the existing freight line to New Haven. Was cut when the Flood of '55 washed out a ton of bridges, including the one over the Blackstone River. MBTA stopped at Blackstone/Route 122 until 1965 when the line was cut back to Franklin, and was abandoned soon after past Grove St. (end of current Franklin Industrial Track, past 495). There was a connection to P&W ROW directly across the river, still visible with the bridges over city streets. The line is landbanked as the Southern New England Trunkline Trail in MA and Air Line State Park in CT (both part of the East Coast Greenway), but the east-of-Blackstone River segment is permanently disconnected from all the rest of the trail system by lack of a close crossing and is a rougher-grade, lesser-maintained trail surface than the rest because of its lower usage and connectivity.

RIDOT studied Woonsocket-Boston commuter rail via this ROW in the mid-90's. Report is still archived on their website. When their proposal for Providence-Woonsocket commuter rail on the P&W becomes reality they intend to make historic Woonsocket station a much bigger intermodal terminal, and intend to re-mount their lobby to MA to study the Blackstone connection so trains can hook the half-mile down the P&W from a new Blackstone wye to a direct Boston route at Woonsocket. Primarily RIDOT's bag so not well-studied in MA, but the EOT has poked around the idea conceptually as combo passenger/freight link to Boston (serving whom I'm not sure because that's a lot of agreeing CSX and P&W would have to do to hash out interchanging and trackage rights) and it is a studied alignment for Amtrak's 2040 Inland NEC vision. Don't bother trying to pin a timetable on the dartboard, but it's a strategic enough link that the odds are pretty long-term good and stand a decent chance of being executed before Amtrak gets down to nitty-gritty of narrowing down preferred inland alignments. It would not be a particularly hard one to re-lay track through Bellingham because the ROW's well-buffered from abutters, has very few grade crossings because of its former status as express route, and can comfortably fit rail-with-trail (better trail than currently if it comes with a new bridge) to not make the Greenway folks nervous.

Thanks forthe history f-line but I ended up finding it after asking I just forgot to edit the post.

"Going to Franklin once a week is small insurance to pay for keeping G&U permanently landlocked."

I agree however I think both lines need each other more than one realizes. If CSX was to sell the trackage east of Worcester, CSX will need G&U to be able to pick up portions of these lines in order to keep P&W from being able to capture all the traffic and possibly diverting traffic to PAS (NS) at Gardner. While no one has said it publically, I think both Priscolli and CSX have realized the situation they are in and are biding their time.

As for the Old Colony, I don't see CSX giving this up for a while. This is THE traffic generator for the Middleboro cluster and probably the "easiest" as far as switching and maintenance. Throw in the FVRT interchange now in South Braintree instead of the cramped East Braintree trackage (thank you MBTA) and FVRT basically doing all the switching for them prior to their arrival, the 5-10 cars every other day from FVRT, the 5-10 Championing, 3-4 Trojan cars and misc beer, gas, brick and coal cars, its a relatively good haul for not a lot or work.

Now the question I have been wondering, could the P&W use its trackage rights and interchange with MC at Cotley? The P&W already interchanges with the MBTA at East Jct and they could travel north up the "freight track" to the Attleboro Secondary and then swap cars at Cotley Jct under their trackage agreement. l'm sure some P&W would be off CSX's Christmas card list if they ever pulled it off. Not saying they ever would but I suppose it could happen.

fogg1703 wrote:Now the question I have been wondering, could the P&W use its trackage rights and interchange with MC at Cotley? The P&W already interchanges with the MBTA at East Jct and they could travel north up the "freight track" to the Attleboro Secondary and then swap cars at Cotley Jct under their trackage agreement. l'm sure some P&W would be off CSX's Christmas card list if they ever pulled it off. Not saying they ever would but I suppose it could happen.

P&W has overhead-only rights on the Attleboro and Fall River branches, so they can't interchange directly in MC territory. Its local rights pick up at the Fall River/Tiverton border and run to Newport (yes, they've kept it all this time the bridge has been out...it's even on their system map). Right now that's exactly one potential customer, the gas tank farm on the Tiverton side of the border where the tracks end. They're currently barge/truck-only, but always a fair future bet for switching to rail. So MC is landlocked by CSX on all sides, and the only way to get around that is if MC got access on the NEC to East Junction Yard in P&W's south-of-Attleboro locals territory. Which CSX would obviously be insane to allow. Or I suppose P&W could be bastards and set up an interchange at that gas tank farm and exchange at the literal state line while going "Neener, neener! Can't touch me!" at CSX. But that's mutually assured destruction, and since MA and RI own the tracks they'd probably intervene real quick to prevent nuclear war between 3 carriers. Unlikely hypothetical; there's not nearly enough business at stake to make that stunt worth either P&W's or MC's while.


EDIT: Checking the system maps, P&W's local rights terminate at East Junction and are overhead-only north of there to Attleboro. CSX local rights extend south to East Jct. That means they could safely let MC vacuum up all locals on the Attleboro Sec. still served by CSX and sort for them at Middleboro interchange so long as MC's not allowed on the NEC.

I guess it all depends on how absolutist CSX wants to be about dumping all remaining locals in favor of interchange-only except for the areas that lack available or advisable shortlines (Boston/128 metro within 10 miles of Readville, Fitchburg Secondary, NEC odds-and-sods, etc.). Framingham increasingly doesn't seem to serve much purpose in the new yard order. If there were some expedited state-sponsored improvements to get the PAR Worcester Branch up to spec they could conceivably run the Everett Terminal job direct out of Worcester with the T granting them overhead rights on the Fitchburg Line east of Ayer (much lower commuter rail interference), as well as the Fitchburg Sec. job via Worcester-Clinton by re-laying the wye track. If the two Priscoli shortlines can take care of all their locals sorting needs and Readville gets a little bit of load-shifting recalibration to offset there's no reason why they can't run the Middleboro job straight direct out of Worcester. They can say to hell with Framingham and the aggravation of dealing with the locals, keep Nevins Yard as a skeletal stopover staffed remote out of Worcester the couple hours a day it's needed, let North and CP collect weeds and be tax revenue and employment black holes for the town until somebody steps up and meets their purchase price, and tell them to talk to the state or talk to the hand on running overhead through the grade crossings. Doesn't impact their revenue any more than the cost savings they return by consolidating, and they move the same exact goods to Worcester.

I guess what options go on the table depends on 1) whither Framingham's place in the pecking order and impact on locals capacity, and 2) whither locals streamlining as corporate policy and how resolute they want to be about consolidating or delegating every cost penny of non-interchange service at no net carload loss.


EDIT 2: I guess they could safely give G&U the Franklin Industrial Track and gamble on possibility of an exposed flank to Blackstone in 25 years if the agreement with G&U was booby-trapped to the hilt with fine print about only interchanging with them and never ever pulling any crap with P&W. Frowned-upon practice by the feds to put in those restrictions, but the legalese loopholes in the contracts are big enough to drive a double-stack through so the Class I's do it all the time. Pretty sure the MC rights transfer had all kinds of arcane gobbledygook in the agreement boxing them in to exclusive interchanging and de facto CSX approval on any expansion moves they make. It's how the game is played.

After all the recent real estate and maintenance deals CSX has made with the State of MA its seems they are pretty content with what they have now. They finally unburdened themselves with the loser South Coast lines, and now can squeeze the most out of their SE Mass locals. With no new major sources of traffic on the horizon everything in place can easily handle the existing traffic. The possiblilty of MSW out of Holbrook is a long ways off due to environmental and NIMBY opposition and I don't think Covanta in Braintree will ever institue shuttle service to Rochester without major monies from the state. The remaining possibility of new carloads here or there will not turn any heads in Jacksonville, therefore status quo until a major coporate culture shift or P&W puts on the pressure.

RE: the south coast line and the Old Colonly lines, I assume that CSX is still the owner and maintains the line Middleboro line to Attelboro. that being the case, and Please correct me if I am wrong, the only train that uses that line is the old Mi-1 (?) and they drop cars off for MC at the junction to New Bedofrd. WHy does CSX not dump this line and have someone else haul the frieght like CSO does over in CT. CSO Hauls all the traffic from Springfield to New Haven (including CSX engines from what Ive Seen) CSX would still have the Old Colony Money maker, Because they don't have to pay for any of the up keep. just a per car fee- and not having to deal woth the cost of Up keep of the line from Middleboro to Attleboro and would be able to reduce there crews by only having the crews that run on the old Colony. I am not sure of the costs associated with the line but it seems like a no brainer for a company looking to same money and dump loosing lines..... I have read that the City Of Taunton is on CSX'x case about crossings again too. need to fix a couple of them......Just wondering, if it would work??

boatsmate wrote:RE: the south coast line and the Old Colonly lines, I assume that CSX is still the owner and maintains the line Middleboro line to Attelboro. that being the case, and Please correct me if I am wrong, the only train that uses that line is the old Mi-1 (?) and they drop cars off for MC at the junction to New Bedofrd. WHy does CSX not dump this line and have someone else haul the frieght like CSO does over in CT. CSO Hauls all the traffic from Springfield to New Haven (including CSX engines from what Ive Seen) CSX would still have the Old Colony Money maker, Because they don't have to pay for any of the up keep. just a per car fee- and not having to deal woth the cost of Up keep of the line from Middleboro to Attleboro and would be able to reduce there crews by only having the crews that run on the old Colony. I am not sure of the costs associated with the line but it seems like a no brainer for a company looking to same money and dump loosing lines..... I have read that the City Of Taunton is on CSX'x case about crossings again too. need to fix a couple of them......Just wondering, if it would work??

State has owned the Attleboro Secondary since it bought the Cape lines from Conrail in the 1980's, so with the 2008 sale of the South Coast lines CSX has shed all their remaining ownership holdings down there, excepting maybe Middleboro Yard (have no idea if they still own the land it sits on, or if it's leased from the T). They're responsible for track maint to Middleboro simply because they're the only current user, but that line was mostly rebuilt for the Amtrak Cape Codder after Conrail sold it so it's in good overall shape. Taunton complains about everything, so I don't know how much I'd read into their grade crossing complaints.

It's a profitable run for them. They get to cover everything south of Walpole Jct. through Foxboro, Mansfield, Attleboro, Middleboro, and Braintree all in one single daily, and MC does most of the sorting work for them at Middleboro Yard letting them leave it almost unstaffed. It's a highly efficient route operationally, and with this rights transfer to MC they don't have to lift a finger to see their carloads at Middleboro increase further. If there's anything to pare it's maybe streamlining the Attleboro Sec. locals onto MC and adding that to their Middleboro sorting mix so CSX doesn't have to do any stopovers once it leaves the NEC. And--maybe--dumping Braintree-Middleboro on MC if the western yard realignment nudges Framingham a little bit further out of the mix and it becomes more prudent to run Worcester-Middleboro direct, shove 100% of the sorting past Attleboro on MC, and let Readville take over the Fore River Braintree interchange and other local odds-and-sods. But that all hinges on whether they see any further downsizing in Framingham's future. For however long it stays status quo the current configuration is probably the most cost-efficient one.

Could the state at some point put the operating rights up for bid, a la BCLR used to run the Cape Main, now MC currently has the rights? I would think CSX would add language into their deals to prevent this.

"and let Readville take over the Fore River Braintree interchange and other local odds-and-sods."

Under what routing? North over the Neponset and down the Dot Branch? I think we are a long way off for freight north of Quincy.

As I stated before, CSX should be very content with what they have accomplished with their deals with the state. They let the shortlines (FVRT and MC) do the leg work and they hook and go for the haul to Framingham.

The Certainteed strike has been resolved:

http://norwood.patch.com/articles/norwo ... s-local-25