Conductor stood his ground

56andahalf wrote:There's something about the posts in this thread that doesn't add up. Everyone seems to be claiming that the video proves that the conductor was acting professionally, doing his job correctly, and so on. But then, these same posters are saying that the video is a form of "character assassination" that must be taken down right away so as to not harm the conductor's reputation.

So here's my question: how can this video both flatter and defame this conductor at the same time? Can someone explain this?

I'm wondering if the posters think (but won't admit) the conductor actually stepped over the line and are worried that NJT management will use this video against the employee at a disciplinary hearing.

I can't believe you wrote this -- how would you like to be on You Tube without your permission and you were labeled an a--hole? If I was the victim, I would be pretty upset at that title.

NJTMatt wrote:Yah in the perfect world it would be nice if the conductor could let them by, but at NJT they have spotters out watching these guys doing there job, and yes lately they have stepped up the spotters and it's getting ugly for the conductors. Lets say he gets reported letting them off and then he is being warned with time off next time, with out pay, if he's caught again. Thats money out of his pocket, a heck of alot more than the 5 bucks those kids had to pay.

If you read my previous post more carefully, I never said he should have let them off the hook - a few sympathetic words such as "I understand, there's nothing I can do, but you can write to NJT and attempt to get a refund" can go a long way. Stating over and over "it's not my problem" when the girl was trying to explain the situation is not very helpful, and tends to just add fuel to the fire. There are few things more aggravating than trying to explain a situation to a person, and have that person basically say "I don't give a crap". Conductors, whether they like it or not, are the main interface between NJT (the buisness) and the public (the customers) - a few choice words can really make the difference (either way!!).

Once again I'm not bashing the conductor here - he didn't really do anything "wrong" - I just think he could have handled the situation a bit better.

Interestingly, this took place in Linden on the old PRR. Old PRR conductor would have stopped the train and ejected the individuals from the train, with the blessing of the management of the railroad.

And if that individual did't comply with ejection, what would have hapened, PRR PD involvement ??

Robert Paniagua wrote:And if that individual did't comply with ejection, what would have hapened, PRR PD involvement ??

Then their ejection would probably be out the door with a slow roll right onto the RoW.

This guy was doing his job and did it well, typically speaking if ticket machines are unavailable (at least on some trains on the NJCL), the head conductor will come on the PA and say "no surcharge, machines aren't working."

On the issue of spotters (this was 3 months ago), I had been sitting next to this one guy on the train for about a week and forgot my monthly one day and it was the usual conductor. As usual, I always have a couple one-ways in my wallet for those circumstances where the conductor wants to charge the fare (I don't put much of a fight up, it's like shootin craps). The conductor wanted a ticket, so I was going to produce the ticket until the guy next to me shows him his transit id and says "he's cool," the conductor immediately complied and moved on.

I can honestly say that these people are courteous to you if you're courteous and play by the rules.

Don't show up a half an hour or an hour early for a train. Twenty minutes ought to do it. And if your smart, you'll go to the westbound platform and purchase your ticket there.

But, that is neither here nor there. Bottom line.... the crewman did his job and followed the rules and was not disrespectful.

This guy was doing his job and did it well, typically speaking if ticket machines are unavailable (at least on some trains on the NJCL), the head conductor will come on the PA and say "no surcharge, machines aren't working."

On the issue of spotters (this was 3 months ago), I had been sitting next to this one guy on the train for about a week and forgot my monthly one day and it was the usual conductor. As usual, I always have a couple one-ways in my wallet for those circumstances where the conductor wants to charge the fare (I don't put much of a fight up, it's like shootin craps). The conductor wanted a ticket, so I was going to produce the ticket until the guy next to me shows him his transit id and says "he's cool," the conductor immediately complied and moved on.

I can honestly say that these people are courteous to you if you're courteous and play by the rules.

Ryanov, Limited knowledge huh? You sir need to get a clue and loose the tin foil hat. KFC jones summed it up. If you were in the conductor's shoes and I did something like that to you like filiming you without even asking for permission and then posted the footage of you on the internet for the entire world to see then titled you as an a$$hole conductor and posted comentary on what I think about you on the net no matter the damaging impact it would have on you as a person and career that is in plain english character assasination. You would take offense and definantly not like that.

As for the ejection off a train and smashing a camera you better beleive there are conductors who can and will do so IF YOU INTENTIONALLY cause a disruption of service on the train(especially if your actions causes the endangerment to other passengers and the crew)which no doubt will spread to the other trains behind you because some whiny passenger wanted to be a jackass and cause problems. So now the train is delayed along with the mulitple trains behind it because NJT Crews had to waste time to throw your butt off the train.

As for the waiting tmes. If you don't feel like waiting then go into your car and drive on! Theres plenty of people who come in as early as I've said to wait for a train since most people come by way of Rts 46, 80, 10, 15 as well as the nearby backroads all of which are parking lots around at certain times of the day. It's either get there on time or arrive late to work/school and face the conequences. I myself have arrived that early if for one reason or the other. I can't stress that enough.

NJTRailfan wrote:As for the ejection off a train and smashing a camera you better beleive there are conductors who can and will do so IF YOU INTENTIONALLY cause a disruption of service on the train(especially if your actions causes the endangerment to other passengers and the crew)

You are doing the same thing the __________ who posted that video is accused of.

By saying that an employee of NJT would destroy someone’s personal property, you are making it seem like the employees are unprofessional and will (illegally) take matters into their own hands instead of following the standard procedure.

I view NJT train crews as professionals who would not stoop to using violence (whether on a patron or their property) to get a message across.

Welcome to the NEC and NJCL on a weekend - that same scene is played out HUNDREDS of times a day.........unfamilar riders to the system, who don't understand/don't care about the procedures and what needs to be done on their part PRIOR to boarding the train. Ticket Machines are evil - HAHAHHAH

Yes, ticket machines fail, they run out of paper, change, get full of money, whatever. However, the basic test is the following -

lots of other people with freshly printed tickets = bad day for folks without tickets.

"The line was too long" is a better excuse than " the machine wasn't working" - but neither cut the mustard many times. If everyone else that that trainman has dealt with from that station has tickets that have the current date printed on the bottom, and just one person/group doesn't what does that tell you?

It tells me that they are out of luck.

If NO ONE boarding at the station has any tickets with teh current date on it, and EVERYONE has the same story, then, they are IN luck, and its 5 bucks cheaper.

Kudos to the trainman for standing his ground. It would have been very easy to back down and say "okay okay okay" But he is putting himself at risk. If the machines were working fine there, and he waived the surcharge for this group, he is supposed to make a notation on the bottom of his cash report..........the paper trail starts there. And could end badly for him. Instead, he did EXACTLY what he was supposed to, as was instructed to him in training. There wasn't a situation, the Police didn't need to be called, and the revenue policy regarding on board surcharges was followed correctly.

Now, Customer Service IMO, was in the wrong for issuing "couresty tickets" if they actually did, which wouldn't surprise me. Thats sending the wrong messages to PITA passengers who now have discovered if they make a stink, they get a free ride in one way or another.

Now that I've seen the video. The C/R was right when he said they should have gotten there earlier. On 12/26, I was in Dover at 9:50 intending to catch train 634 leaving at 10:30. In my case that day the C/R on train 6632 which I decided to take after remembering an hour and a half gap in HOB-Dover service waived the $5 since he told the agent to tell cash fares to pay on the train. Now, when will NJT or the C/R's union demand that the video be taken down?

I'm still not sure that's something they can demand.

Geoffand, Excuse me? How dare you put me in the same category as the thugs whos intent were to destroy a man's reputation while mine was to not only defend him but to explain what would happen to those punks had they got out of control and were to cause further chaos with their actions. See what happen if you pulled a stunt like this on a plane and get pulled off by airline employees and TSA when you decide to make a fool of yourself. That precious gadget of theirs would be either confiscated or damaged because they wanted to act like immature kids with a toy. Thier behavior shows poor upbringing by their parents as it seems there is no discipline in the households. Had I done that in my younger years my parents not only would ground me, but chew me out and have me apologize in person to the conductor.

I just cannot beleive the youth of this country today! Apparently it's ok to lie, cheat and steal and if someone does the right thing and stops you then they will be punished by massive disrespect and intimidation. If these are our future leaders then we as a country are finished!

Robert Paniagua wrote:Interestingly, this took place in Linden on the old PRR. Old PRR conductor would have stopped the train and ejected the individuals from the train, with the blessing of the management of the railroad.

And if that individual did't comply with ejection, what would have hapened, PRR PD involvement ??

By the way Mr. Paniagua, are you the same Robert Paniagua who posted a comment about this incident on the YouTube website? If so why would you, a train enthusiast, encourage someone to fight with a railroad conductor?

I used to be a Penn Central RR cop just after the merger of the NYC and the PRR and I can tell you, these PRR conductors were the saltiest old bunch of guys I'd ever seen. They would not have tolerated the nonsense from these individuals for one minute. He would have asked them one time to pay the fare and upon their failure to do so, a call to the PD would have been made. They would have been given a second chance to pay when we arrived and upon their failure to do so they would have been arrested on the conductor's complaint for theft of service, with the blessing of the railroad. A further charge of interrupting the operation of a railroad might have been added. Of course, this doesn't happen today. Today, everyone must be customer friendly and the poor conductor, who by the way was completely in the right in this incident, will be called on the carpet and asked to account for why he was so discourteous to these miscreants. Why doesn't NJT do like MN and make it an On-Board fare, instead of if there is a ticket agent on duty or one machine working? This way, if they come on the train without a ticket, on board fare, no ifs ands or buts about it.

The old railroad timetables usually had an admonition that if there was a dispute about a fare, you were to pay the fare requested by the conductor, save your receipt and dispute the fare with the railroad. This is only common sense and obviously that's what these individuals lacked.

I know an older conductor who used to work the Trenton and South Amboy/Bay Head locals. His response to a non-payment of fare was a fist and flashlight if the passenger gave him any garbage!

P.S. After the fist and the flashlight then the unruly individual ended up
on the platform or in the ballast!