Conductor- Engineer promotions

This is what I have gathered on the different class ones regarding promoting conductors to engineers....Obviously it varies terminal to terminal but this is a rough idea

Norfolk Southern - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
CSX - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
Union Pacific - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
BNSF - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Canadian National - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Kansas City Southern - New hires spend about 2 years on the ground before considered for engine school
Canadian Pacific - ?

Could anyone with more knowledge clarify, correct, or give more information?

It varies terminal to terminal. On CSX it's more like 3-7 years. I have seen people go in at 1-2 years. It's based on needs can't short one craft to train another. The CSX terminal I retired from just had 5 locomotive engineers retire within a month plus a few conductors. If I remember correctly there are only around 10 people left who hired out in the late '70s early '80s. Seems like you sit forever going nowhere with seniority then all of a sudden you're the oldhead. lol. That happened to me in 1986. I was bouncing from being a locomotive fireman to the engineers extra board. Then they offered LE buy outs. On the subdivision I worked 11 locomotive engineers retired the same day. Then I got my freight pool.

Personally I'd like to become an engineer, but I probably wouldn't like to be thrust into it after only a year or so. Does anyone know about any other railroads? I'm assuming the busier terminals promote more frequently.

Commuter railroads never make you promote to Engineer, at least I know NJ Transit doesn't. I don't think any commuter RR's do, so if you want to go the route of going for Engineer when you feel 100% comfortable that's the way to go.

GE45tonner wrote:Personally I'd like to become an engineer, but I probably wouldn't like to be thrust into it after only a year or so. Does anyone know about any other railroads? I'm assuming the busier terminals promote more frequently.

The other way isn't much better. You get comfortable with conducting, and can start holding jobs you want just to be forced into engine service and many years of extra lists.

CSX Northern Agreement members are sent to school based on seniority. Your number gets called and you go. Southern Region Members can bid or get sent from the bottom ( I have been told?) Southern members can chime in there.

supernova1972 wrote:CSX Northern Agreement members are sent to school based on seniority. Your number gets called and you go. Southern Region Members can bid or get sent from the bottom ( I have been told?) Southern members can chime in there.

I know one Conductor on the CSX Southern Region that didn't go into engine service. When his time came up he was allowed to do a pass back in the late '90s. Not sure of their agreement these days. It was definitely different than the Northern Region. He also fell under an agreement that left him with both road & yard rights in Richmond. Today those hired out in Richmond on the SCL side under the Southern Region only have road rights.

COEN77 wrote:

supernova1972 wrote:CSX Northern Agreement members are sent to school based on seniority. Your number gets called and you go. Southern Region Members can bid or get sent from the bottom ( I have been told?) Southern members can chime in there.

I know one Conductor on the CSX Southern Region that didn't go into engine service. When his time came up he was allowed to do a pass back in the late '90s. Not sure of their agreement these days. It was definitely different than the Northern Region. He also fell under an agreement that left him with both road & yard rights in Richmond. Today those hired out in Richmond on the SCL side under the Southern Region only have road rights.

I work in Richmond on the SCL side, interestingly enough. The reason Richmond SCL guys have no yard rights is because (from the way I heard it) when CSX and NS bought Conrail, the C&O side here in Richmond was going to lose a lot of jobs due to more shit coming into town from the north rather than the west. So somehow they weaseled their way into having yard rights for Acca (the RF&P/SCL yard in Richmond) AND Fulton (the C&O yard in Richmond).

As for how Engineers are called in the CSRA, it's once again by seniority. No bidding, they just call you when they want to send a class. If they get to the bottom of the roster, only then can they go back to the top of the roster and start sending guys who turned it down before.

GE45tonner wrote:This is what I have gathered on the different class ones regarding promoting conductors to engineers....Obviously it varies terminal to terminal but this is a rough idea

Norfolk Southern - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
CSX - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
Union Pacific - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
BNSF - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Canadian National - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Kansas City Southern - New hires spend about 2 years on the ground before considered for engine school
Canadian Pacific - ?

Could anyone with more knowledge clarify, correct, or give more information?

It depends on the terminal you're at more than the railroad, honestly. Some terminals are "old", some are "young". For example I'm in Richmond, VA now and Conductors going to engine school have ~8 years of seniority or so. However, if I had transferred to Manchester, GA instead I'd have already gone... guys there have less than 2 years when they go. it all depends.

TotalLamer wrote:
I work in Richmond on the SCL side, interestingly enough. The reason Richmond SCL guys have no yard rights is because (from the way I heard it) when CSX and NS bought Conrail, the C&O side here in Richmond was going to lose a lot of jobs due to more * coming into town from the north rather than the west. So somehow they weaseled their way into having yard rights for Acca (the RF&P/SCL yard in Richmond) AND Fulton (the C&O yard in Richmond).

I was one of those on the C&O in Richmond now retired when it all happened. It had nothing to do with Conrail. It was a flip of a coin after CSX bought out RF&P. Someone was going to lose out. On the C&O we weren't connected in any way to Conrail seeing we run west-east not north-south. Majority of our business is export coal & grain. Those on the SCL who were already in the yard kept their rights. Only those hired after fell under just road rights. The RF&P took the hit when they moved their seniority to the B&O Eastern. When the last former RF&P employee retires it's basically the end of that railroad. That road work comes out of Baltimore & Philly. Forget the crew room scuttle butt about the C&O weaseled their way. lol. It was just CSX doing business. CSX makes all the choices then they go to the union division/local of their choice to work it out. The last 2 years before I retired in 2010 working out of Fulton on a pusher I had yard foreman who were C&O, SCL, or RF&P based on seniority which was dovetailed based on percentages after the acquisition of the RF&P. Dovetailing was a nightmare especially with 3 railroads. You lost nothing seeing you never had it, it was before your time. It was 20 years ago.

GE45tonner wrote:This is what I have gathered on the different class ones regarding promoting conductors to engineers....Obviously it varies terminal to terminal but this is a rough idea

Norfolk Southern - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
CSX - By seniority, newer conductors will typically wait 7-10 years before being called to engine school
Union Pacific - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
BNSF - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Canadian National - New hire conductors are often forced into engine school within a year, depending on the terminal
Kansas City Southern - New hires spend about 2 years on the ground before considered for engine school
Canadian Pacific - ?

Could anyone with more knowledge clarify, correct, or give more information?

For BNSF, I was forced into the engine program here in Minot. Currently going through the training and due to complete in late March. From what little I've been able to gather, we are among the first from this terminal to be forced. I honestly don't know if it's happened before but apparently it's rare enough that the instructors at the TTC in Kansas were surprised to hear that we were forced to it.