• Concrete ties on NJT tracks

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

  by hsr_fan
 
When the Hazlet station was rebuilt recently, the Hazlet Ave and Holmdel Rd crossings were redone, and concrete ties were used for the new sections of track. Will NJ Transit be using concrete ties for all future track upgrades? It would be something to see the entire coast line with concrete ties!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=25424

  by Tri-State Tom
 
hsr -

It's become SOP for upgrading grade crossings as well as thru station areas proper.

Reason is obvious....less maintenance and longevity of concrete over timber.

  by Irish Chieftain
 
Reputedly, concrete ties have an average life of some 50 years.

Going OT for a sec: Anyone know what became of the plastic tie test that NJT was conducting?

  by NJTRailfan
 
NJT has laid down concrete ties in Dover running the entire length of the platform at the Dover Station on one track. I expect them to do it with the other track. I was told by the crews installing them that eventually NJT will go with concrete ties for the entire system. I hope so as this will garantee a smoother and faster ride. I would love for the cutoff and MOM to be done with concrete ties.

  by nick11a
 
Berkeley Heights has ties installed and they will be at some point installing Concrete ties at Gillette and other stations on the Gladstone branch.

  by njt4172
 
NJT is currently installing concrete ties from West Denville to the Dover station platform. The Boonton line and the sidings on the Gladstone Branch will most likely get the concrete ties before the busy Morristown line does! But you are right and eventually the whole system will get the concrete!

Steve

  by nick11a
 
njt4172 wrote:But you are right and eventually the whole system will get the concrete!
Steve
This won't be for quite a while though.

  by CNJFAN
 
What is the average life of a wooden rail tie? :wink:

  by DutchRailnut
 
about 12 to 15 years

  by njt4172
 
I've been told that the ties that were removed on track 1 in Dover had date nails that go back to 1957!

  by Tri-State Tom
 
NJT -

"....this will garantee a smoother and faster ride. "

Smoother yes, faster NO.

Concrete ties were installed on the Montclair Connection plus in all stations save for two between Roseville and Great Notch on the Montclair-Boonton Line and travel times - both printed and actual - have worsened dramatically ever since.

It's strickly a maintenance thing anywhere except the NEC.

  by BlockLine_4111
 
Ah yes those concrete ties. IIRC the first time I have seen these things was during a family trip to FL as a kid. The FEC used them in/around St. Augustine. I also recall when Amtrak installed them in the area around Hudson tower. This was when the NJT GG1s where still operating too. Concrete ties will attain their potential on the corridor, performance-wise NJT has little to nothing to gain from their use. Again maybe reduced maintenance over the long haul.

NJT in Y2k is whimpy railroading, way too slow.
  by NellieBly
 
Correction for Dutch Rail Nut. The only place I've seen wood ties lasting as little as 15 years is Florida. Wood ties in mainline tracks are almost always creosoted hardwoods (usually oak). Of course life depends upon climate and moisture. In the dry, cold West, wood ties commonly last 40 to 50 years. Note that the tie job in the Moffat Tunnel this summer will replace ties originally placed when the tunnel was built in 1930! Of course, they had a roof over them.

In the northeast US, a life of 30 to 35 years is about right. Same in the midwest, but these are only averages. I have some mid-1930s date nails I rescued from ties we were replacing on the Illinois Central in the mid-1970s when I was a track laborer there. That's 40 years.

On the other hand, in 2002 I inspected a ballast-deck trestle in Savannah, GA that CSX was abandoning. The structure was built new in 1982. Essentially 100% of the ties had failed, although no traffic had used the bridge since 1993. That's a 20-year life, max -- that's what a warm, wet climate does for you.

The principal problem with concrete ties is that they're expensive and so are the elastic fastening systems they need. UP has purchased one million plastic/rubber composite ties in the last two years, and has been very happy with their performance. These ties have been in test at Pueblo, CO on the AAR test track, and after one billion gross tons, no failures have been recorded. The composite ties are completely resistant to environmental decay and conventional spikes and plates can be used on them. They're only about 25% more expensive than wood ties (vs. 100% for concrete), and they may be the wave of the future.

  by Olton Hall
 
Plastic ties have one big problem, brush fires. They melt easilyand then you need to replace them. Timber ties can burn for a bit and still be usable.

  by hsr_fan
 
When I was about 13 years old, NJ Transit replaced the jointed rail on the northbound track through Hazlet with new welded rail, and replaced all the ties as well. This was in the spring/summer of 1988 I believe. Many of those ties look pretty bad now! I'd say they're about due for replacement. Some have rotted so much that they have been replaced piecemeal.