CMSL service Rio Grande to Cape May

Amtrak7 wrote:

glennk419 wrote:

Amtrak7 wrote:Forgive me if it's posted elsewhere, but does the post above mean that the 2 sections on the CMSL will be connected and will run as one long trip this year?

Unfortunately, no. The section of track between Woodbine and Cape May Court House, while fine for equipment moves, it not quite ready for revenue trips.

Will it be ready next year? (or how about one excursion roundtrip a year?)

If it is excepted track under FRA rules, passenger moves over it are illegal. if it is not excepted, then OK.

I am editing my post to clarify and inform:
I am not a foe of the CMSL or its owner or employees. I don't know any of them, have no business, and have no history with them.

When I went to the Atlantic County Clerk's office web site at http://208.48.197.211/or_web1/or_sch_1.asp and did a search for Cape May Seashore Lines, I came across a federal tax lien (FTN) dated 4/15/2011 on page 13284/0 for $2067.58. There was one more from the fall, which was paid.

My point was not to discredit CMSL, but to point to evidence that money seems tight with the operation.


Origninal Post:
Judging by the federal tax lien filed against the CMSL yesterday, I would say money is tight.

What I don't understand is, how can they have a tax liability? I don't see the operation as a cash cow.

Passaic River Rat wrote:I am editing my post to clarify and inform:
I am not a foe of the CMSL or its owner or employees. I don't know any of them, have no business, and have no history with them.

When I went to the Atlantic County Clerk's office web site at http://208.48.197.211/or_web1/or_sch_1.asp and did a search for Cape May Seashore Lines, I came across a federal tax lien (FTN) dated 4/15/2011 on page 13284/0 for $2067.58. There was one more from the fall, which was paid.

My point was not to discredit CMSL, but to point to evidence that money seems tight with the operation.


Origninal Post:
Judging by the federal tax lien filed against the CMSL yesterday, I would say money is tight.

What I don't understand is, how can they have a tax liability? I don't see the operation as a cash cow.

I do not think we need to know this---Just another attempt to start another nasty round of speculation and more of the negative comments we had cleared up on this thread several months ago!

Wait, hold on, really? You don't think "we need to know" about a tax lien that was filled against the railroad? Its obviously a matter of public record, and could have the potential to affect the operations of the railroad, but we shouldn't discuss it on a railroad discussion forum? Come on. Nobody is accusing the railroad or its officers of doing anything wrong, just pointing out that there may be other issues affecting the operation of the railroad that were generally unknown to this point. Just because potentially negative information is brought to light doesn't mean that individual wants to see the railroad shut down, torn up, and everyone involved with it jailed. It seems supporters of the CMSL are just a little bit too defensive and sensitive to questions. Since according to the above post this is not the first lien that was placed, and subsequently handled in a responsible manner by the railroad, would it not have been easier for someone to point out that while funds may be tight at times, the railroad is still managing to take care of its responsibilities in a professional manner and they hope to see revenues increase in the future? It would be a much better response than what amounts to "SHUT UP, you shouldn't mention anything that isn't totally positive about the railroad".

Passaic River Rat wrote:I am editing my post to clarify and inform:
I am not a foe of the CMSL or its owner or employees. I don't know any of them, have no business, and have no history with them.

When I went to the Atlantic County Clerk's office web site at http://208.48.197.211/or_web1/or_sch_1.asp and did a search for Cape May Seashore Lines, I came across a federal tax lien (FTN) dated 4/15/2011 on page 13284/0 for $2067.58. There was one more from the fall, which was paid.

My point was not to discredit CMSL, but to point to evidence that money seems tight with the operation.


Origninal Post:
Judging by the federal tax lien filed against the CMSL yesterday, I would say money is tight.

What I don't understand is, how can they have a tax liability? I don't see the operation as a cash cow.

Just out of curiousity, what would possess you to do this? Too much time on your hands or some other incendiary purpose?

I was actually looking for a deed for the CMSL for a separate project.

This might be a little off topic, but it crossed my mind. Why was Rio Grande the place chosen by the CMSL for there to be a car storage and engine sevice yard and not Cape May, where there used to be one, or Woodbine or Tuckahoe? Rio Grande Doesnt make a lot of sense, to me, for such a facility.

Ken W2KB wrote:If it is excepted track under FRA rules, passenger moves over it are illegal. if it is not excepted, then OK.

Is it? This sort of information should be public, I think.

rrbluesman wrote:This might be a little off topic, but it crossed my mind. Why was Rio Grande the place chosen by the CMSL for there to be a car storage and engine sevice yard and not Cape May, where there used to be one, or Woodbine or Tuckahoe? Rio Grande Doesnt make a lot of sense, to me, for such a facility.

All of the equipment is now stored and serviced at Tuckahoe. I can only guess that Rio Grande was used at the time sevice was running between CMCH and Cape May because:

a) it had existing sidings and plenty of storage space
b) there were virtually no neighbors to be concerned with upsetting (although Middle Township turned out to be no friend either)
c) it was the mid point for service at the time which reduced the time and distance for dead heading equipment to and from the service end points
d) it was easily accessible to the major highways in the area

Amtrak7 wrote:

Ken W2KB wrote:If it is excepted track under FRA rules, passenger moves over it are illegal. if it is not excepted, then OK.

Is it? This sort of information should be public, I think.

I do not know, but is a reasonable possibility if passenger trains cannot be operated over a specific section. It may not be public, just in the railroad's track inspection records, which are subject to FRA review or audit. The condition of the track under FRA classification dictates what can be operated over it and at what speeds.

Often excepted track can be upgraded by replacing a few ties here and there, so is not in and of itself a major issue.

Sirsonic wrote:Wait, hold on, really? You don't think "we need to know" about a tax lien that was filled against the railroad? Its obviously a matter of public record, and could have the potential to affect the operations of the railroad, but we shouldn't discuss it on a railroad discussion forum? Come on. Nobody is accusing the railroad or its officers of doing anything wrong, just pointing out that there may be other issues affecting the operation of the railroad that were generally unknown to this point. Just because potentially negative information is brought to light doesn't mean that individual wants to see the railroad shut down, torn up, and everyone involved with it jailed. It seems supporters of the CMSL are just a little bit too defensive and sensitive to questions. Since according to the above post this is not the first lien that was placed, and subsequently handled in a responsible manner by the railroad, would it not have been easier for someone to point out that while funds may be tight at times, the railroad is still managing to take care of its responsibilities in a professional manner and they hope to see revenues increase in the future? It would be a much better response than what amounts to "SHUT UP, you shouldn't mention anything that isn't totally positive about the railroad".

Amen. A possible temporary cash flow issue does not mandate gloom and doom.

Ken W2KB wrote:Amen. A possible temporary cash flow issue does not mandate gloom and doom.

I found a few more liens going back to 2006 from the Cape May County Clerk's web page. I guess it is a routine. It just goes to show that the management is making the best out of what they have(which isn't much, except for a lot of heart). Besides, what could the IRS take? CMSL doesn't own the ROW, and I think a lot of the rolling stock is leased. I still cannot understand how there can be any tax liability.

Passaic River Rat wrote:I still cannot understand how there can be any tax liability.

Obviously, because they're doing better than ExxonMobil and GE are.

I'm staying positive this year and i hope it works out for Tony.
Does he own any part of the CMSL besides the name? He leases the tracks from NJT right? and he leases equipment as well?
I will continue to support and ride his trains this summer..I think he has a great operation..Cape May is a tourist destination in the summer months..if the NYS&WT&HS can make money in Phillipsburg..Cape May should make him some money!

I have always been under the impression that Tony owned the Budd RDCs.