Catenary on your layouts

green_elite_cab wrote:

deandremouse wrote:Note- Something like an Silverliner I/ Pioneer III
And instead of just calling it a day I chose to get creative that day. And well it was worth it so far the car looks ok.( besides the big hole in the roof) it can be classified as a fantasy Silverliner class....
BTW- today I finshed track work on 1/4 SIRT modules I made.

if thats the way you want to go, so be it. maybe you can get a Silverliner IV roof hump from one of those god awful SEPTA store models. they were meant to be toys, i think, so they look miserable on the ends, but the roof detail might work. they are cheap to. If you interested, i'll pick some up for you if i find any. I've been thinking about checking out the SEPTA store to see if they have any interesting equipment in there.

also, the SIRT is easy. Make the tottenville terminal, and i'll be impressed.

hell, i think you REALLY should backdate your modules. there used to be a huge smelting operation near the outerbridge crossing, its gone now, but back in the day you'd get some Chessie/ B&O units in there, deep in jersey territory. you can find some pictures if you look hard enough.

Damn u just keep giving me more inspiration just for you if I get some really good photos and a big enough wood base I'll build TottenVille terminal. And i was going to have the tracks run in a loop but f*** that! I'll just have curves here an there but hell I'll go the extra mile. I WOULD REALLY rather it straight like that then have to build and align the track( that's a pain in the @ss) after a curve it makes it WAY easier.

Petz wrote:

Dieter wrote:How about pantograph wear? Someone told me they had a problem with wearing a rut in the pantograph shoe from the wire

Never had any problem like this. I use a hard copper Kleinbahn catenary on the larger part of my railraod and a self built catenary at the smaller part (see my pictures at the beginning of the topic). The self built catenary had been made with electric welding coppered steel wire (like the Sommerfeld catenary parts). The pantograph shoes usually are hard copper parts too, most of the electric model locomotive manufacturers use this material. I think the important thing to preserve ruts is a zigzag adjustment of the catenary contact wire like it´s done in reality too. Besides that the zigzag running wire removes dust and dirt from the pantographs and this avoids electric interrupts too.

Interesting solution we commonly overlook in scale; do what they do in the real world......

Questions on wear; it depends on how much you run the pieces, and I suppose the degree of tension on the extended pantograph arm? Not to single out a manufacturer, but the worst incident of wear I've ever seen on an HO pantograph was on one made by Lima. It was made of chrome-plated copper, and the wear rivaled the worst case of wear on pickup shoes (coincidentally on a ROCO piece) I can remember.

On Otto's comments on anchoring - take a lesson on solid construction from Sommerfeldt; a wide screw with a washer to disperse pressure on the bottom of their masts assures the thing isn't going to budge unless somebody clumsy falls on it.

Green_Elite_Cab -- your catenary looks first rate!!

D/

Dieter wrote: Green_Elite_Cab -- your catenary looks first rate!!

D/

I made some more to! I'm experimenting using thinner wire. I think it will work. the pole in the back is unnecessary now, but i haven't pulled it out yet. Even this bridge will be replaces, i found better materials to work with, i just need to take the wires off this, and re-attach them to the new H-columns when i get them.

Dieter wrote:Not to single out a manufacturer, but the worst incident of wear I've ever seen on an HO pantograph was on one made by Lima. It was made of chrome-plated copper, and the wear rivaled the worst case of wear on pickup shoes

I agree, some of the pantographs should be thrown in the scrap box before leaving the factory...
Only the Sommerfeld towers are brass built and strong enough; much other ones are plastic made and failed when a more rugged pantograph derails and pulls a bit stronger on the catenary.

@green_elite_cab, you have done an absolutely great work !!!

Green Elite, have you considered using "Blacken It" on your masts and catenary to age them? I don't think that would hinder conductivity if you're running trains off the wire, but a test would be prudent before taking on the entire division. How about using thin copper wire on the masts that will turn green over time, like the real thing?

Hey Petz, when you buy an electric locomotive, do you ever buy spare pantographs at the same time, in the event you need one down the road and the part is discontinued? I tried that once, and it was impossible to get spares or even just the shoes.

D/

Dieter wrote:Green Elite, have you considered using "Blacken It" on your masts and catenary to age them? I don't think that would hinder conductivity if you're running trains off the wire, but a test would be prudent before taking on the entire division. How about using thin copper wire on the masts that will turn green over time, like the real thing?

D/

This is all mock ups. I still have to special order the brass shapes to build the real stuff. I'm just trying to gain experience before i start. that's why you don't see any insulators. I have a couple packs of them.

A creative fellow on a budget showed me where he used simple plastic BEADS to simulate insulators on PRR/NEC catenary towers. it was convincing!

D/

Dieter wrote:Hey Petz, when you buy an electric locomotive, do you ever buy spare pantographs at the same time, in the event you need one down the road and the part is discontinued? I tried that once, and it was impossible to get spares or even just the shoes.

Have bought some additional pantographs from Kleinbahn
(two pantograph types available - cheap and rather rugged)
http://www.kleinbahn.com/
and Sommerfeldt (main supplier for the model railroad industry in europe)
http://www.sommerfeldt.de/index2.html
but not at the same time.
Needed it for self built locos or for replacing "Lima - panthojunk". Pure panthograph spare parts - for example the shoes - are unfortunately not available as far as i know.

Dieter wrote:A creative fellow on a budget showed me where he used simple plastic BEADS to simulate insulators on PRR/NEC catenary towers. it was convincing!

D/

not convincing enough . they never have that disk shape, at least not as i have seen them. i've looked, and i have family members who are more knowledgeable about beads than I, and we have not found a suitiable stand in.

that said, i did buy beads for this purpose, but i have no clue where they went. In the end, the Tichy trains are more realistic anyway, and i'm only building 12 catenary bridges.

green_elite_cab wrote:

Dieter wrote:A creative fellow on a budget showed me where he used simple plastic BEADS to simulate insulators on PRR/NEC catenary towers. it was convincing!

D/

not convincing enough . they never have that disk shape, at least not as i have seen them. i've looked, and i have family members who are more knowledgeable about beads than I, and we have not found a suitiable stand in.

that said, i did buy beads for this purpose, but i have no clue where they went. In the end, the Tichy trains are more realistic anyway, and i'm only building 12 catenary bridges.

It all depends on how you arrange the beads. I have built about fifty to sixty catenary bridges on my layout using black beads most are 2 or more tracks with largest being six tracks. Ticky insulators are nice but a Prototypical insulator is about 10" wide and the min thickness of a catenary H pole is 14" I bought some to try them out but they are lil too small plus I personally would need about 100 bags so I stuck with beads. My thing is I have built this catenary system to work not for show. So I am using real world materials like copper and powering all electric trains from the wire with DCC. Using copper,there are no electrical issues, no cleaning of wire and no wear of the pantograph. Ive been using copper for 20 years. The only problem I have is with bachmann & Atlas Pantographs (they suck)
Heres a picture of a typical PRR style prototypical insulators on the ground at a substation (laying on their sides next to the barrel)
Here are Some shots of my railroad with beed copper catenary

SubStation is not extactly prototypical- control building & transformers. generation station to the right out of picture

debating .. If i should paint beads brownish ... 30th street Station in the Background

Broad Street Station.. Like at most Large stations on the NEC catenary comes down low

Everything is DCC and running off Wire

Steve in Philly
http://www.prrnortheastcorridor.com

Steve and Chris, please feel free to post more photos of your layouts! You're giving us some great inspiration.

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

Question for Steve:

(We actually met at the NMRA convention in June of '06)

Is it still possible to run trains off the rails at the same time others are unning off the catenary?

Kyle

mlrr wrote:Question for Steve:

(We actually met at the NMRA convention in June of '06)

Is it still possible to run trains off the rails at the same time others are unning off the catenary?

Kyle

Hey I remember you ! How are u doing ?
Well that is a yes and no question. On my railroad all the main running (4)tracks are insulated from each other.(reason: when I was on a Analog system I could used the catenary as a common to control individual tracks with individual powerpacks) YES it is possible to isolate a track and power it for a diesel or steam loco but for them to operate on the same track, NO it wont work. I use both rails for return power and that would short circuit out power for the diesel or steam loco

ac0catenary wrote:

mlrr wrote:Question for Steve:

(We actually met at the NMRA convention in June of '06)

Is it still possible to run trains off the rails at the same time others are unning off the catenary?

Kyle

Hey I remember you ! How are u doing ?
Well that is a yes and no question. On my railroad all the main running (4)tracks are insulated from each other.(reason: when I was on a Analog system I could used the catenary as a common to control individual tracks with individual powerpacks) YES it is possible to isolate a track and power it for a diesel or steam loco but for them to operate on the same track, NO it wont work. I use both rails for return power and that would short circuit out power for the diesel or steam loco

wouldn't it be possible to just rewire the locomotives so that the power goes from the pantograph to just one rail, and have both the pans and the other wheel picking up the "common"? I feel this would be ideal, since it treats the pans as an extra pickup, and you might still get the sparks, without sacrificing what you run, or reliable pick up.

green_elite_cab wrote:

ac0catenary wrote:

mlrr wrote:Question for Steve:

(We actually met at the NMRA convention in June of '06)

Is it still possible to run trains off the rails at the same time others are unning off the catenary?

Kyle

Hey I remember you ! How are u doing ?
Well that is a yes and no question. On my railroad all the main running (4)tracks are insulated from each other.(reason: when I was on a Analog system I could used the catenary as a common to control individual tracks with individual powerpacks) YES it is possible to isolate a track and power it for a diesel or steam loco but for them to operate on the same track, NO it wont work. I use both rails for return power and that would short circuit out power for the diesel or steam loco

wouldn't it be possible to just rewire the locomotives so that the power goes from the pantograph to just one rail, and have both the pans and the other wheel picking up the "common"? I feel this would be ideal, since it treats the pans as an extra pickup, and you might still get the sparks, without sacrificing what you run, or reliable pick up.

I think your saying
have the electric run as a regular loco (conventional) with an extra pick up from the wire???.. yes its Possible but
For me that was quite confusing. I tried that years ago when I first started out. With that kind of set up all the electric locomotives now have a polarized body side (meaning if u physically picked them off the track you could not turn them around because it would cause a short circuit. yes most electric locos are double ended so why turn them around but I happed to have a couple of E60cf Freight Locos that are single ended and I had to wire one the reverse of the other For MU operation. (what a pain) That electrical pickup side which would be in line with the pantagraph you need to keep consistant ,auto reversing would have to be controlled with a circuit and MU..ing electric locomotives will be limited. I rarely run diesels or steam. Most of my stock is electric So why go through all that trouble. As far a realiability running off both rails and an energized wire let just say I rarely clean any track, dont need any auto reversing circuiting and Its configured just like the prototype.