Business Class on NJT

On Friday, I slid over to the middle seat to let a newly-boarded passenger sit down. What a mistake. The guy must have weighed 300+ lbs. Me and the guy at the window seat could barely breathe.

Got me thinking. Would I pay a premium for 2 + 2 seating? Would you?

Let's not worry for now about how this would be enforced by traincrew or how this would exacerbate the current system-wide seat shortage.

I'd have to vote no for this. If people want to have business class, they can take Amtrak.

The good news is that the Comet VIs (the Bis) will have the 2-2 seating arangement.

A seperate class on a NJT train, to me anyway, would be a waste. However, a bar car...now we are talking.

Mudvalve wrote:A seperate class on a NJT train, to me anyway, would be a waste. However, a bar car...now we are talking.

Haha! Reminds me of IdiotRailfan's Comet V bar car parody picture. "Irish Chieftan's" place it had on it. Always good to suck up to the mod! :D

I thought it was a great idea, the bar car. A nice cold drink on the way home from a rough day at the office would hit the spot.

Premium seating would work for individuals who travel a long distance, but for the average commuter, i doubt there would be interest in it.

I hate polls

DutchRailnut wrote:I hate polls

Yeah, we know.

No other commuter railroad has a "business class". They do have private club cars though, such as NJT does on the NJCL, and of course bar cars such as NJT used to have and the ConnDOT/Metro-North joint service still has.

I seem to be unable to delete polls at this time; some sort of Structured Query Language error. Poll will hang around pro tempore...

In Germany and other European countries the "S" bahns (regional commuter trains) have both 1 and 2 class. Works quite well. I would imagine that on some NJT routes, would work well also.

Before we talk about "business class," how about a kind of ticket that guarantees you a seat? I'm not quite sure how this would be enforced. Then again, I'm not sure how business class would be enforced. Maybe the real point of business class would be a guaranteed seat. The business class car(s) would have their end doors locked and would have their own crew member who would kick out people with the wrong ticket. I guess the crew person would need body armor and a Taser gun.

hmmm a tough question....in some ways it would make sense in others it is a very bad idea...

it is the BUS class to guarantee more space, a seat, or to simply ride in a car minus standees....we should be careful to not apply an airline business model to a public agency....

Usually the company response to crowding seems to be "we are at our max with the ALP44/ 46 pulling X coaches"; they also invoke the max # of coaches rule when trying to explain train moves at NYP and capacity...

In the case of the clocker I can understand the desire for a seat out of NYP to PHL during rush hours; it is a LONG ride (200 Club). Having been a rider on the clocker as a non Club member, I remember it hurt a little bit when you wonder if a perfectly public coach could substitute for a private one; as you are stare at the closed car from a cold leaky Amfleet vestibule riding from NYP to Princeton.

If the same situation where to occur at NJT, it would almost invalidate the max coach argument for an overcrowded train equipped with a business class coach....after all, isn't the company line: "We are at the maximum number coaches for our trains....we need bi-levels" In the case of a private coach- a public benefit company would be providing a premium service at the cost of not providing one coach of basic service in face of overwelming demand.

If rider ship was different it would make sense.....if NJT were profit making it would makes sense.....After all in the airline model seat configs are DIRECTLY related to cost per mile...less so for NJT; Which probably explains the school bus seating on board trains...or better yet just imagine you are in a MD-80.

I could see having half a car, say the front half of the cab car, where there could be two by two seating, and nice say Amfleet chairs. The seats woudl be under the watchful eye of the conductor, and it would be as simple as "if you are sitting in the blue seats in the first car, you will be charged 5 dollars extra" and the conductor would simply iether cut a simple CFR for the seat or they could get it added on to their monthly.

However, I could see many problems with a lack of these seats, and people fighting over the limited "luxury" seats, and that could get ugly

Like was said, it really comes down to whether NJT's role is profit-maximizing or welfare-maximizing, and as a public entity it is clearly the latter.

I'm sure MANY people at such stops as Princeton/PJC, Far Hills, and others would gladly pay significantly more than the current NJT fare in order to guarantee a comfortable, spacious seat on the way to work. As the houses and cars in central NJ show, there are few limits to what people are willing to pay for convenience and luxury! But the extra profit (or, more accurately, reduced losses) wouldn't be enough to offset the losses to all the "coach" passengers who would be left standing as a result.

There another argument against a class system--the egalitarian nature of NJT is actually something I, and I'm sure most of you, really enjoy. You never know who you'll be riding next to--CFOs, welders, lawyers, ministers, students, etc. Aren't many places left where you get to experience that.

If there is enough of a market for luxury commuter rail, could we let a private, for-profit company come in to meet that demand? Would NJT let them use the tracks? Could they actually turn a profit? Interesting hypothetical!

Where I was going was toward more room per backside. :D

The average airline coach seat is about 17" wide and business or first class is about 20" wide. But there's a hard divider between seats that more or less keeps everyone in their place and more or less defines the limit of your "personal" space. The "take whatever you can" bench seating on NJT makes it always feel like PUBLIC transportation.

The CalTrain gallery bi-levels have been refitted with 2x2 hardback conforming seats - simiar to the LIRR M7 seats - and the response has been weak. The ex-VRE de-motored RDCs with soft 2x2s are highly sought after.

I don't know what the width of the average American's backside is, but in NJ, it's larger than an NJT seat.

A little reading on the subject...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... seats.html

Mercer&Somerset:

...interesting hypothetical...in fact i can imagine the generalized federal subsidy model given to the airlines...the gov't runs/ builds the airports and FAA while the airline co's focus on carrying passengers...

...unfortunately you still run into the pofitmaking/ social welfare issue since the same private carrier trains would have to compete for slots into the hudson river tubes which are reaching critical capacity (granted airports compete for slots too but among private companies that pay premiums).....

if on the other hand the gov't focused soley on a Federal Interstate Railway system and not runnig trains you might be able to dramatically increase capacity and make competition will "public benefit" carriers less obvious.