Arrivals and Departures – North Station

Well this question has been on my mind for a while now, just didn't know how to word it.
North Station obviously the end of the line for passengers coming into Boston, north of the city.
What I'm trying to get at is this: The MBTA runs there engines on the north end of the train; out bound trains are pulled and inbound trains are pushed. I know it wasn't always like this because I have seen pictures of trains in North Station with the engine on the south end (especially during the B&M era). How did it work back in the day vs. now? Did the arriving train with the engine on the south bound end pull into North Station, then back out after all passengers and mail were off the train, then have a train back into North Station with and engine on the north bound side ready to go out bound?
Why doesn't the MBTA operate the old way? I know for that to happen they would need something to turn the engine around at the destinations, whether it would be a turntable, Y or a loop. Someone did tell me that if it was to operate like this, the MBTA would need more motive power (an engine already waiting in the right direction). So overall my entire question is mainly this: how did it all work before the current operation the MBTA runs now, with the engines on the same end at all times?

My own personal familiarity with North Station only goes back to the mid-1960s, by which time all B&M service was provided by RDCs that didn't care which way they were pointed (and the Talgo experimental lightweight train that had an engine at each end). But basically, in the pre-RDC era of locomotive-hauled trains, things were as you suppose: incoming trains backed out to the coach yard across the river after discharging passengers, and outbound trains backed in from the yard, with an engine runaround and often an addition or subtraction of cars in between. That was the way it was generally done at terminal stations all across the country.

Why doesn't the MBTA operate the old way? Because they save a HUGE amount of money in switching costs by using fixed-consist bidirectional push-pull sets. Every other North American operator of locomotive-hauled commuter trains (except maybe the Long Island Rail Road on some East End runs? -- not sure on that one these days) does the same thing.

Tom's right, plus the fact the "new" North Station is partially under the Fleet /TD Bank Whatever Garden Center parking garage. Engine fumes
would come into play.

All trains must spot their engines clear of the highway ramps, not under per special instruction timetable rules.

Dave

GP40MC1118 wrote:Tom's right, plus the fact the "new" North Station is partially under the Fleet /TD Bank Whatever Garden Center parking garage. Engine fumes
would come into play.

Dave

Actually, the station is over the garage but under the arena.

Same rule also goes for Amtrak's Downeaster trains.

this way saves time and money. it just makes more sense.

dont forget that in the pre RDC days there was a turntable and a roundhouse where the BET is now.

GP40MC1118 wrote:All trains must spot their engines clear of the highway ramps, not under per special instruction timetable rules.

Why?

Ventilation reasons....................same reason for the engines to be spotted outside of the bus terminal at South Station.

This was probably even more critical when the old ramps were in place, much closer to the building. Spotting the engine under there would have sent smoke and, to a lesser extent, noise, under into the station much more easily.

It might have been nice if the damn developer/engineers on the so called "Fleet Center" project considered that simple fact that in addition to providing a place for the Bruins/Celts, there is this thing called "North Station", and is utilized by thousands of railroad commuters daily. As such, they could have provided a proper space to handle all of pedestrian traffic, as well as providing a proper waiting area.

Trying to get in and out of the station when there's a game or other function is nothing short of a free-for-all. They should have provided separate entrances for railroad passengers and function-goers.

In fact, during the colder months, the "corridor" that passes for a train station isn't wide enough for folks so that the automatic doors are constantly tripping, allowing all that cold air to come inside. Talk about being a miserable place to be for a waiting passenger, or for workers between runs.

OK, enough complaining. Time to catch a train out of "North Station"

Ok, but wasn't the old Boston Garden over the station and tracks? And didn't there used to be all steam in and out? So what was done back then?

"Ok, but wasn't the old Boston Garden over the station and tracks?"

No, the old Garden was over the station concourse, but not over the tracks. There were a couple highway ramps built over the platform tracks about halfway out (when they still went all the way to the building; later they were cut back to the ramp area to make room for a parking lot), but nothing that restricted ventilation at the original bumper end.

Not having been there but once, then only to ried by on the El (Blue Line?) blank near 40 years ago, I wondered. I am sure there was some steam and smoke whic seeped in at one itme or another but not like the diesel fumes of today. It sounds like there was a blunder on the archetects or design engineers not taking such into account. Of course, as happens too often today, many don't know enough about railroads and trains often thinking no further than the electric train around the Christmas tree or since the El is electric ist is assumed that all that runs on track is electric. I know in NY there are a few places where highways were built on old railroad ROWs and the highway engineers ignored railroad engineers warning of sink holes, ice build up areas, rock and mud slides, high water areas, etc. so they spent--and still spend--lots to ease the problem at least and sometimes go all the way to cure it! All because they didn't know and didn't listen.

Interesting topic. But I am slightly confused. Let me see if I can get this right:

Engine pulls into station with train. Engine stops at end of track. To get a new engine attached, one must hook up to the rear car, making the rear the new front. New engine leaves with train. Now old engine has room to leave station.

Do I have that right? Or is my mental image all wrong?

JD

Depends on era. In "old days" on engine pullling, train would enter terminal track with engine first then either the train would be pulled backwards by yard engine (with or without road engine), or train would be backed out by road power or new engine attached and inbound powere uncoupled. Depended on railroad, depended on needs, etc. There were also some very early attemps at "flying", i.e. get train to speed, pull engine off train, run ahead into a siding, flip switch and let cars fly into station with only the brakes at the hands of the train crew!. Needlesss to say that was dangerous and short lived. RDC, electric MU and push pull have all changed with most attempts to keep power on the outside of the train or the end which does not go into the terminal track.