Are the Silverliner 4s all going obsolete?

I frequently travel to Central Philadelphia on the 11 or 13 Trolley so I can go to the doctors. When I'm done I would catch train (the Regional Rail) from the Market East Station, hoping I would get the old Silverliner 4 trains and 98% of the time I would get lucky and get my way. This is during the 12:00 or 1:00pm hour I would get the Silverliner 4 trains most of the time.

But as it turns out, my luck appears to be running out. Before coming back here to the boards for the first time since late 2010 I might add! I looked on the Septa official website for the Regional Rail's Wilmington-Newark line schedule. Throughout the entire schedule there are the four-digit train numbers starting with 9, meaning those trains represent the Silverliner 5s that I hate so much. Does that mean the Silverliner 4s are to become completely extinct? I mean, I feel like I would be lucky if I spot any Silverliner 4s on the tracks these days.

If you guys especially the mods don't mind me ranting for a bit, let me just express my strong disliking for the Silverliner 5s. They feel just as uncomfortable as they look! That robotic lady's voice is freaking annoying! The seats are too dam long (too much back space, not enough butt space). And those trains are ugly! The only thing I actually like about them are that little computer monitor thing installed on the walls above the seats that can be a little fun to watch as you ride.

The Silverliner 4s are beautiful. The seating is a lot more comfortable. The interior has a far more relaxing feel. Also, in the 2006 film called Shadowboxer starring Cuba Gooding Jr and Helen Mirren, the Silverliner 4s make frequent appearances like those trains are also star of the movie. So when I ride the Silverliner 4 I might be on a movie set for all I know.

I mean, it would be cheaper for me to use the Market Frankford line and the 102 Trolley to go home but I love the Silverliner 4s and I hope Septa reps realize that the Silverliner 4s still have fans like me who hate the Silverliner 5 with the fire of 1,000 suns. I hope so anyway. So I can't see why they can't just make new Silverliner 4s, retaining their old designs but running more efficiently AND have that monitor thing above tune seats! That would be awesome!

Which trains do you like better? Also, even after they put out more Silverliner 5s, is it known if they'll still run more Silverliner 4s? I hope they don't end up like the Silverliner 3s because I haven't seen any of those trains since 2007.

*BTW I know the station is now called Jefferson Station. I like Market East better.

The 9 in front of the train number means it originates at roberts yard, not that it's a silverliner V. The silverliner Vs are assigned somewhat randomly to trains. The Silverliner IVs might have periods where more of them are in for maintenance so there are more Silverliner Vs or vv. The Silverliner Vs didn't replace the Silverliner IVs, but they did replace the Silverliner IIs and IIIs. The design of the Silverliner IVs is no longer FRA compliant due to the vestibules and traps, so they couldn't make new ones of them. They still make up 58% of the total fleet and 65% of the EMU fleet. You might have more luck at rush hour, but they are definitely still out there and they will be for at least a few more years. I believe they are due to be replaced in the 2020s.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge with the FRA compliance, but what's wrong with the vestibules and traps?

Crashworthiness

BKS and Everyone:

In 2016 all of the Silverliner 4 cars are reaching their 40th year of service - the second add-on order from GE which were the high-numbered
300 series cars for PC and the 100 series RDG pairs date from 1975-76. I remember that those RDG pairs at first had the RDG diamond - low
numbered cars like 101-102 carried the RDG herald - but later cars - especially those delivered after April 1, 1976 which was the beginning of
Conrail did not - and only carried the SEPTA red ball logo which all S4 cars once had.

This S4 fleet is still going strong and may well reach their 50th year before they get replaced by S6 cars next decade - hard to believe that
there are just four years left of the 2010s now...It was a good move by SEPTA to overhaul them and install new interiors inside all...

As we know the Silverliner Four is literally the backbone of SEPTA's RRD fleet - where would they be today without them?

MACTRAXX

No

Blackstreet, you should hang out with me at 30th St. a few times a year when I'm looking to ride Silverliner V's and can't find any; when all the trains coming thru are S-IV's. LOL Agreed, the S-V is a very imperfect attempt at modernization. SEPTA apparently got what they paid for. But I like them for two reasons: First because we can see out the front from a normal seated position which is my highest priority. And second I find the robotic-lady's announcements amusing to listen to. "Next s-t-o-p, Levit--town".

The SL-IV's were never overhauled where it counts. They have new seats from the old ketchup and mustard seats (yes).

But the propulsion system, braking system, HVAC system, door control system, and engineer cabs are all original (unless something broke and needed to be replaced).

If you look in the electrical panel cabinets at the middle of the SL-IV, you will see "microchips" the size of Hershey bars, circuit boards the size of a cereal box, and other various electronics that are so old, they were probably made in America.

And even the interior overhauls weren't thorough. The lighting system is still 40 years old, the public address system is sporadic, the HVAC panels in the ceiling still vibrate in certain cars, and who doesn't enjoy getting baptized riding the train home on the train with a leaky roof?

The other issue is, GE likely doesn't make many parts for those cars anymore. They've effectively been out of the transit propulsion biz for a while, now. There's an interesting white paper on the BSS cars and why SEPTA went the way they did on the propulsion refit. GE apparently no longer supports that equipment at all. I'm not surprised - GE as of late likes to give up on stuff that isn't sexy and profitable enough for them...

Head-end View wrote:Blackstreet, you should hang out with me at 30th St. a few times a year when I'm looking to ride Silverliner V's and can't find any; when all the trains coming thru are S-IV's. LOL Agreed, the S-V is a very imperfect attempt at modernization. SEPTA apparently got what they paid for. But I like them for two reasons: First because we can see out the front from a normal seated position which is my highest priority. And second I find the robotic-lady's announcements amusing to listen to. "Next s-t-o-p, Levit--town".

I wouldn't call that lady's voice "robotic"...in fact, she sounds like a cute, young Asian lady! When she says "Watch your step when exiting", it sounds like she's saying it with a smile! She sounds a lot better than the lady's announcements on the MFL M4's ("Doors are opening...69th Street train making all stops...Doors are closing")...

I kind of agree with you Tim! It is a pleasant, upbeat sounding voice. But I believe it's a computer generated voice, not a real person.

It's the same voice as the I-phone. Now getting back on topic, when I heard that the old cam controllers from the B-IVs are being used as spares on the SL-IVs, why didn't SEPTA just order enough Vossloth IGBT units for both the B-IV and SL-IV fleets? If anything, it would insure at least another 5 years of service life (barring and FRA mandate).

The propulsion system on the SL IV is nothing like the BSS cars. The cam is used for braking. The actual propulsion is a phase angle system like the SL II and III cars.