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ARC Tunnel - Revisited (Again)

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by blockline4180
 
Jtgshu wrote: Check the NY forum and the Southern Tier/East of Binghamton thread....lots of interesting reading in there, and its not much of a leap to think that there are two ways out of the area for NS freight pretty much - the Southern Tier or the Lehigh Line. Either way is going to affect NJT trains A LOT...........
How about the WASS?? You don't ever think the WASS will see through freights in our lifetime?? :P

However, I do actually believe that a H07 road/local type train running from Allentown to Dover or Denville is not out of question, especially with the increased traffic between Washington and Totowa! Major tie replacement is slated for the WASS next spring!

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by ns3010
 
I was thinking the same thing. The only problem with using the Washington Secondary is the catenary. This could be avoided (mostly) by rebuilding the Boonton Line, and then all they have to worry about is the few miles between Denville and Dover. (with the dual modes coming, they could rip down the wires there, and still run Midtown Direct from Dover! :wink: )

The M-B sees such little traffic, that a routing like this could be doable. Unless they could devise some kind of a solution, double stacks and H&W's wouldn't be allowed to go this way, however.

Not to mention that with the Cutoff, there is yet another routing out of the area that they could use.

I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing long drags rolling through Mount Arlington on my way to school every morning!

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by blockline4180
 
ns3010 wrote:I was thinking the same thing. The only problem with using the Washington Secondary is the catenary. This could be avoided (mostly) by rebuilding the Boonton Line, and then all they have to worry about is the few miles between Denville and Dover. (with the dual modes coming, they could rip down the wires there, and still run Midtown Direct from Dover! :wink: )

The M-B sees such little traffic, that a routing like this could be doable. Unless they could devise some kind of a solution, double stacks and H&W's wouldn't be allowed to go this way, however.

Not to mention that with the Cutoff, there is yet another routing out of the area that they could use.

I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing long drags rolling through Mount Arlington on my way to school every morning!
Yes, I would too, but like I said I think the only train you may see will be a tri-weekly "H07 type" road-local that probably won't even go past Denville or Dover.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by ns3010
 
Well, excuse me for being optimistic! :-D

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by blockline4180
 
ns3010 wrote:Well, excuse me for being optimistic! :-D

  by PullmanCo
 
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing long drags rolling through Mount Arlington on my way to school every morning
Cue William T. Fidurski and his paranoia over double-stack and garbage trains using the Rahway Valley and the Cutoff to get their fetid cargo to Northeastern PA...

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by SecaucusJunction
 
The main problems for the WASS is the abandoned bridges and no stack clearances. Stack trains will be king in this freight renaissance and I'd think NS would focus on routes that could accomodate them. If The WASS had both of those things, I guess I could see them using it as a "back door" into Croxton after the Lehigh and Southern Tier are maxed out. But I believe Jtgshu is right that more freight is coming to the Lehigh. I'd look for multiple new symbols within the next several months into 2011.

I also agree the WASS could see an uptick in local traffic in the next several years but the cutoff won't see freight traffic in our lifetime... Or our childrens'....

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by ns3010
 
blockline4180 wrote:
ns3010 wrote:Well, excuse me for being optimistic! :-D
The quote function strikes again! :-)

PullmanCo wrote:
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing long drags rolling through Mount Arlington on my way to school every morning
Cue William T. Fidurski and his paranoia over double-stack and garbage trains using the Rahway Valley and the Cutoff to get their fetid cargo to Northeastern PA...
A few months back (don't remember exactly when), they talked about the Rahway Valley in that article about NIMBYism. The one guy the author interviewed was a total idiot. "We don't want mile long trains running through our quiet neighborhood," when talking about the Morristown & Erie!
And then, when he said, "My son could be walking along the tracks with his iPod on and not hear the train coming." (emphasis added)
Um, hello?????????? Really? Cause I'm pretty sure that that would just be purely stupid and irresponsible.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by Tom V
 
I love how everyone comes to the Governor's defense by pointing blame at Washington, please keep in mind that mentality got the Governor a whole lot of egg on his face with the Race to the Top application. He went before the cameras and derided "Washington Bureaucrats" for costing NJ $400 million in Education funding, when in fact it was his own appointees who at his orders were tinkering with the already completed application over Memorial day weekend in order to insert anti-teacher union nonsense with regards to tenure during lay-offs.

The application was fine, that is until he ordered a last minute revision. His own ego and crusade against teachers cost us $400 million, and led to the lay offs of possibly 8,000 teachers accoridng to the Star Ledger.

The Fed's were more than willing to work with NJ with regards to ARC, it's the Governor's own agenda that is getting in the way of progress for the State of New Jersey whether it be reforming the schools are meeting the transportation needs of the State's Citizens.

$400 Million in education funding,

Lost due to the Governor

$3 Billion in ARC funding

lost due to the Governor

$1.46 Billion in newly available rail funding

Governor doesn't even try.

So Ohio got the $400 Million, and New York may end up with $4.46 Billion for their rail projects. Seems the Governor is helping other States while punishing New Jersey residents. And people are talking about him for President, what's he going to do at the Federal level to top what he's done as Governor?..

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by Dcell
 
This forum isn't MSNBC nor FoxNews. Let's stop with the political talk and focus on rail. My issue with the now-dead ARC Tunnel was no connection to NYPenn nor Moyniham station. It's time to focus on building a joint-use, jointly-funded NJT/Amtrak tunnel to NYPenn/Moynihan station.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by Tom V
 
Dcell wrote:This forum isn't MSNBC nor FoxNews. Let's stop with the political talk and focus on rail. My issue with the now-dead ARC Tunnel was no connection to NYPenn nor Moyniham station. It's time to focus on building a joint-use, jointly-funded NJT/Amtrak tunnel to NYPenn/Moynihan station.
That means we have to start all over again, new enviromental studies, new engineering studies, new scoping process, new public meets, new property to be acquired, new Federal Funding, new Port Authority, new State Funding.

The chance to do the Hudson rail tunnels was now, the chance has been lost. The Federal Government with Republican control is not going to provide more than what transit friendly Democrats were willing to offer. In wouldn't be surprised in Republicans once again try to kill Amtrak, or atleast go back to the starving the agency of funding.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by jb9152
 
Look, no matter how you feel politically about Christie, one thing is very clear - he ran on a platform of slashing spending and getting NJ's tax burden under control. He was elected on that very specific platform by the people of New Jersey. That's a fact.

ARC is an incredibly expensive project, and due partially to mismanagement, partially due to lack of regional will, vision, and cooperation, and partially due to the economy sh*tting the bed, its costs were spiraling out of control. That, too, is a fact.

Christie very plainly said that if the Feds would come forward and guarantee that NJ's taxpayers wouldn't have to foot the bill for the massive cost overruns that the Feds themselves were projecting, he'd be fine with letting the project go forward. The Feds brought nothing new to the table except some frenetic press releasing, making a show of flying to New Jersey (as if this couldn't be handled with phone calls or God forbid WebEx-ing), and in the end doing nothing.

So, yeah - the Feds are not blameless in this. People want to jump in and excoriate Christie while acting as if the Feds had no hand in this, because they can't bring themselves, apparently, to criticize the current President and his Administration. That's fine - I get that. But the facts don't support your political position.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by DutchRailnut
 
The cost of ARC was not spiraling out of control, infact it was still within budget.
Christie canceled project based on possible cost overruns.
in todays economy the cost could very well have been substancialy under budged due to salary freezes and cost of building materials declining.
Add to that that construction companies in a depressed economy will bid substantially lower just to get the work.

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by Tom V
 
The tolls on the Parkway and Turnpike were raised in order for New Jersey to raise it's share of funds for ARC, will the Governor roll those toll hikes back? Of course not, he needs those funds to recapitalize the Transit fund without raising the Gas tax. He never intended to build ARC, he targeted those funds for the Transit fund all along. He made it clear he was never going to raise the Gas tax, thus what alternatives were left. Basically ARC was killed because the Governor did not want to raise the gas tax, which is amongst the lowest in the Nation, to fund the Transit fund (what the purpose of the Tax is for).

Re: ARC Tunnel - revisited (again)

  by afiggatt
 
Tom V wrote:Wow, hats off to New York.

First their Senators announce they are going go after the $3 Billion in Federal funding originally dedicated for NJ's Hudson river tunnel project, now newly elected Governor Andrew Cuomo announces he's going after $1.26 Billion in rail funds that two Mid-Western States are going to turn down. Those States's newly elected Republican Governors are taking their cues from NJ Governor Christie by killing rail projects in their States.

Governor elect Cuomo wants to put the $1.26 Billion towards high speed rail between NYC and Montreal and Toronto.
...
Governor Christie, why didn't you try to get this $1.26 Billion to help with your projected overruns with ARC. Unless of of course your intention was always to kill ARC, now matter what actual cost projections were or what other funding was available.
The $1.26 billion Cuomo is asking for is from the HSIPR (High Speed and Intercity Passenger Rail) stimulus funding. ARC was a commuter rail project, not an intercity rail project and thus not a candidate for that money. Cuomo is not going to get $1.26 billion for a NYC to Montreal & Toronto higher speed rain corridor. For starters, beyond the NYP to Albany and Schenectady section, there are presumably no engineering or EIS studies for the route. Now, NY is a good candidate to get a piece of the HSIPR funds that may get returned by Ohio & Wisconsin (in seriously dumb knee-jerk reaction moves by their newly elected Governors who would be throwing back 100% federally funded project money), but that money will almost certainly go to the applications submitted by NY last year from a shopping list of projects on the Empire service corridor. Another candidate for the HSIPR stimulus funds would be the north Portal Bridge replacement project because that is part of the NEC, but I am not clear on the funding status of that project. NJ & Amtrak did apply for FY2010 HSIPR funds for the north Portal Bridge project, but did not get any awards.

For the $3+ billion of ARC federal New Start money, the rush by cities and states to try to get a piece of those funds has only just started. Don't know what the rules are with regards to who is eligible for the New Start transit funds, but La Hood and the Obama administration are going to direct that money towards transit projects, not roads.
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