Any chance NJT will get Amtrak's old rolling stock?

http://fortune.com/2016/09/03/amtrak-hi ... ains-2021/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like amtrack is making a major upgrade. Some people have said fo awhile that the major problem with NJT trains speed is they have to travel at the slowest restriction of its rolling stock. Anyone in the know think NJT might purchase some of their old trains?

The article also touts how Amtrack is almost always on time in the north east bc they own most of their tracks and as a result receive the right of way.

first it is Amtrak, no C as for NJT rolling stock it is newer than Amtrak has and is not much slower.
It still does not matter if you have 125 mph equipment if railroad you operate on is classified as much lower.
speeds are based on track conditions, signal systems , and requirements.

Yea. I don’t really know what I’m talking about. I was reading the article and it reminded me of one of eurostars comments on a post I read a few months ago. I referenced the information in hopes of being able to pretend like I can sit at the big kids table.

As for Amtrak spelling. I was at work my phone autocorrected it to am track and then I had to go back and remove the space. It was gonna be a PITA to get to the ‘c’ also so I let it fly, figuring if no one responded someone would at least want to be the first to call me out on my spelling.

 

Eurostars comment on rolling stock being slower then Amtrak’s (not that it matters b/c someone else argued more convincingly that above grade crossings would be the real MVP):

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=161663&start=30#p1369517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am missing your point. Amtrak is replacing the Acelas. Are you suggesting that NJT gets the current Acela trainsets for commuter service? That is just beyond absurd. As in there are a million and one reasons why it would not happen.

And yes, not every single piece of equipment that NJT uses on the Northeast corridor is qualified for the same speeds as the Amfleets and the Sprinters, but hey this is a commuter railroad not high-speed intercity service. Apart of the few Princeton Junction expresses there is no other scheduled move that could even remotely benefit from running at the same speeds as Amtrak. And buying or maintaining special rolling stock for those is just not worth the trouble and the state cannot afford it anyway.

Thanks Euro, always good info.

Forget the speeds. As has been discussed here previously in some of the equipment rotations threads the Princeton Junction Expresses appear to be so fully integrated into the rotation that however many there are (23 I seem to recall) that's how many trainsets were needed to fulfill them. While there are close to that number of Acela trainsets their capacity is what? 350 passengers? A Princeton Junction Express carries 1,000 on a slow day and upwards of 1,500 on a busy one. Would you also propose purchasing the already dismissed extra coaches and changing out the seats for higher density also? Finally, before anyone gets the bright idea to just repurchase the Clocker slots and reinstate that service for some of these expresses remember the only reason the clockers survived as long as they did was because of NJT paying Amtrak to accept NJT monthly passes. Beyond that there weren't enough passengers willing to pay a premium for the ride to even keep the Century Club (or was it the 200 Club?) private car alive.

Its been a long time since the clocker ran. I wonder if its time for a new market analysis?

Philly-North Philly-Trenton-Princeton-New Brunswick-Metro-EWR-Newark-NYC

Premium service offering 5 round trips a day. 20% price premium over the local NJT fares.

Are there time slots available in the Hudson River tunnels?

jamesinclair wrote:Its been a long time since the clocker ran. I wonder if its time for a new market analysis?

Philly-North Philly-Trenton-Princeton-New Brunswick-Metro-EWR-Newark-NYC

Premium service offering 5 round trips a day. 20% price premium over the local NJT fares.

Call it 50%, and you can keep the GWB open (and SEPTA can repair the damn S-Vs)

Ken W2KB wrote:Are there time slots available in the Hudson River tunnels?

For the right price, sure. That price might be in cash to Amtrak (so they take off some of their trains, or reschedule them) or in capacity loss elsewhere on the NJT system.

jamesinclair wrote:Its been a long time since the clocker ran. I wonder if its time for a new market analysis?

Philly-North Philly-Trenton-Princeton-New Brunswick-Metro-EWR-Newark-NYC

Premium service offering 5 round trips a day. 20% price premium over the local NJT fares.

There is a premium service already: it is called Amtrak. The Regionals and the Keystones serve the NJ stations to Philly passengers well enough even though not every train stops at every station you mention. Practically everyone else is served by NJTransit expresses to NYC. Why do people think that there is a huge latent demand hidden somewhere that Amtrak is not serving is beyond me. While Amtrak is not flush with rolling stock, if there was a reason to run longer Keystones than the current 5 car trains I am sure they would have found something. And the level of service at the said stations is already as good or better than your 5 trips a day.

EuroStar wrote:Why do people think that there is a huge latent demand hidden somewhere that Amtrak is not serving is beyond me.

Because that's been the situation in the US for the last 3 decades with Amtrak?

It's real easy - be reasonably priced, reliable, safe, and faster than driving, and you'll get ridership. On the corridor, Amtrak can barely tick 1/2 those boxes on a good day. Off the corridor, they don't stand a chance on any of them.

Back in the days of Clocker service Princeton Junction had at least three of them making stops in Princeton Junction and one in New Brunswick. They got the same one a day Keystone that they get now. I believe they also were served, one way only, by the Carolinian and possibly a Pittsburgh train in the opposite direction. Today there is one, maybe two regionals that stop in Princeton Junction and one Keystone. New Brunswick I am pretty sure is only one of each. How is that the same as five round trips a day?

EuroStar wrote: There is a premium service already: it is called Amtrak. The Regionals and the Keystones serve the NJ stations to Philly passengers well enough even though not every train stops at every station you mention. Practically everyone else is served by NJTransit expresses to NYC. Why do people think that there is a huge latent demand hidden somewhere that Amtrak is not serving is beyond me. While Amtrak is not flush with rolling stock, if there was a reason to run longer Keystones than the current 5 car trains I am sure they would have found something. And the level of service at the said stations is already as good or better than your 5 trips a day.

No, unreserved is key. Amtrak does not offer that in the NEC because they do not run commuter service. In California, they do run commuter service, and thus are unreserved.

"serve the NJ stations to Philly passengers well enough"

One trip a day does not meet anyones definition of "well enough"

"Practically everyone else is served by NJTransit expresses to NYC. "

Life does not begin and end in NYC. Sometimes you need to cross the great wall of Pennsylvania, enjoy a forced 20 minute transfer wait, and then pay the $5 New Jersey SEPTA penalty which buys you a rail car with no bathrooms and super-local service. Served, yes. Served well, no.

"if there was a reason to run longer Keystones than the current 5 car trains I am sure they would have found something. "

Im sure the folks at the Amtrak forum will enjoy that laugh. We're talking about the same Amtrak which bough NJ Transit Comets to provide adequate service in California and recently leased Wisconsin Talgos. The same Amtrak that runs MARC cars on holidays,

jamesinclair wrote: Life does not begin and end in NYC. Sometimes you need to cross the great wall of Pennsylvania, enjoy a forced 20 minute transfer wait, and then pay the $5 New Jersey SEPTA penalty which buys you a rail car with no bathrooms and super-local service. Served, yes. Served well, no.

While you might not like the transfer and the local service, the demand is not there for anything better. There are not enough commuters and other single-trip passengers during most times of the day. To justify non-local service to Philly you need your locals to be full and beyond reasonable length, probably at least 6 cars. Currently that might be the case only in peak hour. But that is also exactly when those few Amtrak trains stop at said stations(for example, Princeton Junction get served toward Philly exactly during the morning peak). Sorry, nobody is going to run a lightly utilized express service to Philly in off-peak hours because there are 5 people who want to do the trip at those hours. When you have several hundred people at those times then we could talk about unmet demand.

jamesinclair wrote: Im sure the folks at the Amtrak forum will enjoy that laugh. We're talking about the same Amtrak which bough NJ Transit Comets to provide adequate service in California and recently leased Wisconsin Talgos. The same Amtrak that runs MARC cars on holidays,

In California, California pays for track maintenance and equipment. Amtrak will run whatever the state buys for them. It is the state of California (not sure which state agency exactly) that bought the Comets and leased the Talgos. It is the same thing as with Massachusetts -- Keolis will run whatever equipment the state buy for them.

As for holidays, it is not fiscally prudent to have say 30 coaches sitting in the yards 364 days a year and using them 1 day for the Thanksgiving peak. Borrowing from the commuter agencies makes perfect sense as they can adjust their equipment cycles and have fewer cars shopped that one week. They get a few bucks from the lease, Amtrak makes a few bucks and a few thousand people get a timely if not most comfortable ride home. It is a win for all parties involved.

CaDOT(aka Caltrans) bought the "Comarrows",then paid Amtrak to do their rebuilding at Beech Grove along with a NPCU
and a trio of Horizen food service cars.
While part of the San Joaquin equipment pool,they are "swing sets" that could cover Capitol Corridor services,
or if sent to LA,could work Surfliner service,or LOSSAN service on the "Coast Line"

As far as Acela sets being sold to NJT,NO WAY! NJT can barely keep the rest of the fleet running,
Acela sets need specialized maintaince,that NJT can not afford.($$$$$$)