And the cutting begins

It sounds like NJT is playing a "SEPTA" with the proposed RTX elimination. Having a demand based fare system isn't some public policy handout, its Economics 101 and raising the off-peak fare only stands to simply clog the peak trains and push discretionary riders off the trains. My guess is that it is the designated compromise item that NJT restores after a huge public outcry.

What gets me the most is how the state's drivers aren't going to face any increase in user fees, tolls or fuel taxes. The contempt Christie has for transit and its users are clear, but its everyone who pays when road congestion increases.

Tolls just went up dramatically on the pike and parkway and a huge part of the increase was earmarked for the ARC Tunnel. Look it up.

The plan seems to make some sense.

I find it curious they are cutting the one Murray Hill Local (that returns east to Hoboken at about a 6:45 PM.) That train gets I think about 15 reverse commuters who board at Murray Hill. It seems like there are more passengers on that train than there are on the earlier and later Murray Hill Trains.

NJT is calling for the elimination of trains 2306 and 2309. When they say "eliminate," do they really mean "replace" these trains as 5306 and 5309? That would make sense. The heaviest ridership on 2306 discharges at Newark. I can't speak for 2309 however...

How about 5724 on the RVL. Would we be looking at it being "replaced" with 5424. A lot of Kean students take that train as it gets most students from out west to campus with time to spare for 9:30 AM classes. With the elimination of 5903, does that mean 5733 will again become an all-local to High Bridge?

I personally think its a better move for them to bring 1001 back; why have a Hoboken-MSU then transfer when a diesel can do it all at once. Even the transfer connection (1029) had poor ridership (I made a remark and count in another thread a while back). 1001 through to Dover should be sufficient!

Tolls just went up dramatically on the pike and parkway and a huge part of the increase was earmarked for the ARC Tunnel. Look it up.

And they can go up again for the budget shortfall

I was actually thinking more about vehicle registration fees and the fuel tax and such. The excuse that road users had their fees raised "recently" is a gross political dodge. A rising budget shortfall should sink all boats.

Incidentally I don't mind the increase in bus fares as 1.35 was awfully low. 2.25 for a light rail ride is a bit pricey tho, I'd have tried to keep that at $2 or less. What is the RiverLINE going up to?

Jersey_Mike wrote:What gets me the most is how the state's drivers aren't going to face any increase in user fees, tolls or fuel taxes. The contempt Christie has for transit and its users are clear, but its everyone who pays when road congestion increases.

DRPA will be increasing their tolls to $5 (!) to cross the river as of January 2011 (delayed from July 2010).

Jersey_Mike wrote: Incidentally I don't mind the increase in bus fares as 1.35 was awfully low. 2.25 for a light rail ride is a bit pricey tho, I'd have tried to keep that at $2 or less. What is the RiverLINE going up to?

If I read the blurb correctly $1.35 zone 1 fare will go to $1.70. If Riverline, and Newark remain as zone 1 fares then that should mean they go to $1.70.

I haven't read what's going to happen to the continuing trip fare Riverline to Philadelphia. That's now $2.25, which makes it cheaper than Riverline $1.35 + Patco $1.25. If Patco doesn't change its fares that might convince some of the people, including me, who transfer at Camden to the bus to Philly to take Patco instead. The arithmetic might also convince some intERstate monthly pass passengers to convert to a zone 1 intRAstate pass, or even single tickets, and take Patco.

Along with eliminating the off-peak differential pricing, which you suggest may be just a sacrificial negotiating tactic, these are changes that could result in less revenue.

Are there any comparable situations going to New York, that is are there buses whose passengers might see PATH fares more attractive?

firthorfifth06 wrote:NJT is calling for the elimination of trains 2306 and 2309. When they say "eliminate," do they really mean "replace" these trains as 5306 and 5309? That would make sense. The heaviest ridership on 2306 discharges at Newark. I can't speak for 2309 however...

Yeah, 2309 typically has a huge crowd of people boarding at Newark.

Question. On average how much does it actually cost to build the new TVMs? I mean, the Pascack Valley Line is so close to all stations actually having one, just the uber-worthless Teterboro station (why does this still stand? Can't downtown Hasbrouck Heights attract better service?) and Anderson Street. If memory serves, before the fire, Anderson had one. Might save some money to get stations, at least terminal stations like Gladstone, Hackettstown, Raritan, Bay Head or High Bridge to have them at least.

Jersey_Mike wrote:It sounds like NJT is playing a "SEPTA" with the proposed RTX elimination. Having a demand based fare system isn't some public policy handout, its Economics 101 and raising the off-peak fare only stands to simply clog the peak trains and push discretionary riders off the trains. My guess is that it is the designated compromise item that NJT restores after a huge public outcry.

The economics work out differently when you have to run trainsets long enough to handle your peak demand all day, though obviously if this somehow drives up peak usage (which I doubt) the problem will be exacerbated. In that light peak trains are costly things to run, and it makes some sense to charge the smaller number of people riding them extra. They did at least spare us the kind of draconian off peak cuts that would have made the whole debate moot. Credit where credit is due.

The reality is, though, the money to make up for NJT's shortfall has to come from somewhere, whether it be the RTX discount or something similarly important. We can but hope that someone in Trenton gets scared straight by the reaction the dramatic fare increase gets and ponies up some extra cash, because this is definitely out of Transit's control.

EDIT: Well, I was wrong...it looks like we got someone in Washington: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 69&t=69842

Just reviewed the entire service cut/fare increase proposal....

CC is an idiot who is about to run NJ into the ground at 500 mph.

This entire situation can be summed up into one image.



- A

TREnecNYP wrote:Just reviewed the entire service cut/fare increase proposal....

CC is an idiot who is about to run NJ into the ground at 500 mph.

This entire situation can be summed up into one image.



- A

Does anyone get the point of the following line:

END THE CHRISTIE BASHING!

Your king and idol Corzine wasn't much better - also you DON'T LIVE NOR PAY TAXES for Jersey, so why do you care if Christie runs the state down.

Some people are actually saying nice things about SEPTA in this thread. Let's keep things in proper perspective, shall we? If SEPTA’s management and board of directors governed NJT, these are the kind of proposals we would be discussing today:

Discontinue the Atlantic City Line and the Princeton Branch.

Discontinue service between Montclair State and Denville.

Discontinue service west of Netcong and Raritan .

Discontinue Waterfront Connection revenue service.

Eliminate all but one through diesel train on the North Coast Line.

Revert to provisional service on the Pascack Valley Line.

SEPTA’s institutional mentality has not changed. Remember this is the same organization that has spent most of its existence abandoning or threatening to abandon rail lines. Once Pennsylvania's latest request to toll I-80 is rejected, it's all going to hit the fan for transit users in the Keystone State.

Wingnut wrote:Some people are actually saying nice things about SEPTA in this thread. Let's keep things in proper perspective, shall we? If SEPTA’s management and board of directors governed NJT, these are the kind of proposals we would be discussing today:

Discontinue the Atlantic City Line and the Princeton Branch.

Discontinue service between Montclair State and Denville.

Discontinue service west of Netcong and Raritan .

Discontinue Waterfront Connection revenue service.

Eliminate all but one through diesel train on the North Coast Line.

Revert to provisional service on the Pascack Valley Line.

SEPTA’s institutional mentality has not changed. Remember this is the same organization that has spent most of its existence abandoning or threatening to abandon rail lines. Once Pennsylvania's latest request to toll I-80 is rejected, it's all going to hit the fan for transit users in the Keystone State.

What do you suggest then for everyone at High Bridge, Annandale, Lebanon, Whitehouse, North Branch, Mountain Lakes, Hackettstown, Mt. Olive (who really aren't getting that much of a hit), Boonton, Lincoln Park, Towaco, Atlantic City, Hammonton, Atco, Egg Harbor City, etc. The buses are less reliable than rail and I don't think we need more hassling.

Not to mention eliminate toilets from trains. Still surprised SEPTA operates with no restrooms when it has some fairly long routes.