Amtrak to Louisville

I remember the ill-fated train from Chicago to Louisville (Can't remember the name) a few years back. After hearing about the 3C Corrider and such I was wondering if there would be a market from Cincinnati to Louisville since there would be more trains aside from the middle of the night Cardinal coming into Cincinnati. Does a ROW or trackage still exist?

Bobby S wrote:I remember the ill-fated train from Chicago to Louisville (Can't remember the name) a few years back. After hearing about the 3C Corrider and such I was wondering if there would be a market from Cincinnati to Louisville since there would be more trains aside from the middle of the night Cardinal coming into Cincinnati. Does a ROW or trackage still exist?

The 1999 to 2003 "Kentucky Cardinal" was an extension of the "Hoosier State." I'm not sure if Amtrak's late 1990s M&E business strategy figured into the decision making behind this train? Were there any Amtrak shippers between Indianapolis and Louisville.

Looking beyond Louisville, but along the same line, it is something of a continuing embarrassment that a city the size of Nashville doesn't have Amtrak service, but there again, the same can be said of Las Vegas and Phoenix.

Not just Cincinnati to Louisville; but all along a Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati-Louisville-Nashville-Memphis routing, there are metro areas of 500.000 and more. Connect them with each other and (overnight) to the East and to Dallas. A great long distance route that should have added day trains, too.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:

Bobby S wrote:I remember the ill-fated train from Chicago to Louisville (Can't remember the name) a few years back. After hearing about the 3C Corrider and such I was wondering if there would be a market from Cincinnati to Louisville since there would be more trains aside from the middle of the night Cardinal coming into Cincinnati. Does a ROW or trackage still exist?

The 1999 to 2003 "Kentucky Cardinal" was an extension of the "Hoosier State." I'm not sure if Amtrak's late 1990s M&E business strategy figured into the decision making behind this train? Were there any Amtrak shippers between Indianapolis and Louisville.

Looking beyond Louisville, but along the same line, it is something of a continuing embarrassment that a city the size of Nashville doesn't have Amtrak service, but there again, the same can be said of Las Vegas and Phoenix.

The Ky Cardinal suffered from poor track from Indy to Louisville. Amtrak built a trailer facility on the Indiana side. Later the city of Louisville spent good money to extend the train to LUS (Ex-L&N). The train could have made the round trip from Louisville to Nashville if the train could have been easily turned for the northbound run.

Not sure if the track from Cincinnati to Louisville is in any shape to host passenger trains. CSX seems to mostly use the old L&N/C&EI route via Evansville to get to Chicago. Most of the old Monon is no more.

Most of the ex- L&N route from Bowling Green KY to Memphis is owned by RJ Corman but ends near Clarksville. The Nashville-Memphis windy route takes too long & would need to be rebuilt. It is already clogged with the freight traffic connections with UP.

Obviously, there is a gigantic hole in Amtrak national service routes between Chicago and Florida, whichever intermediate cities are eventually decided upon. I'm not going to argue the exact route. But, since just about every possible freight route that could be used is full of freight, abandoned, or otherwise a poor choice, this route seems to need a brand new rail corridor with brand new tracks. Because of these reasons, it seems to me that this would be an excellent choice for the first long distance HSR route to be built. If you got to start from scratch, might as well build it as fast as possible.....

Maybe some state support especially from Tennessee would get something started, without state support I don't think much
will happen here.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:Maybe some state support especially from Tennessee would get something started, without state support I don't think much
will happen here.
Noel Weaver

I assume you're replying primarily to the poster and replies about extending all the way to Memphis, TN.

My sense of the idea of a much shorter extension to Louisville, from friends who grew up there, is that there are some economic ties with Cincy. It isn't very far away, which is both good and bad, since it's not a long drive. And the currently suggested schedule Cleveland-Cincy seems to allow room for an extension without needing additional crew.

The devil is in the details - track condition, possible speeds, etc. But I think an extension has a certain logic in terms of equipment utilization and in-corridor travel, if speeds and funding could be worked out. It seems possible that it could add more pax than new costs.

Here's a link to the Kentucky DOT rail plan:
http://transportation.ky.gov/planning/m ... s/rail.asp

(use the drop down box mid-page to find the passenger rail chapter)

The plan is from 2001. It does mention the idea of Cincy-Louisville (though you have to know the geography to recognize it - it's described as connecting Louisville and Covington, Covington being a Kentucky suburb of Cincy.) It concludes that it was not worth it in 2001, and recommends rethinking the issue if the proposed HSR line from Chicago to Cincy is built. Of course, the 3-C's idea was hardly even a glimmer back then. And putting a dogleg at the end of Chgo-Cincy wouldn't have been the most efficient way to Louisville anyway. My guess is that they will consider this route (meaning do a new study of ridership potential if the 3-C is built. But right now, there is still some small but genuine doubt about whether Ohio will even follow through, as suggested by links in another thread.

ne plus ultra wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:Maybe some state support especially from Tennessee would get something started, without state support I don't think much
will happen here.
Noel Weaver

I assume you're replying primarily to the poster and replies about extending all the way to Memphis, TN.

My sense of the idea of a much shorter extension to Louisville, from friends who grew up there, is that there are some economic ties with Cincy. It isn't very far away, which is both good and bad, since it's not a long drive. And the currently suggested schedule Cleveland-Cincy seems to allow room for an extension without needing additional crew.

The devil is in the details - track condition, possible speeds, etc. But I think an extension has a certain logic in terms of equipment utilization and in-corridor travel, if speeds and funding could be worked out. It seems possible that it could add more pax than new costs.

Here's a link to the Kentucky DOT rail plan:
http://transportation.ky.gov/planning/m ... s/rail.asp

(use the drop down box mid-page to find the passenger rail chapter)

The plan is from 2001. It does mention the idea of Cincy-Louisville (though you have to know the geography to recognize it - it's described as connecting Louisville and Covington, Covington being a Kentucky suburb of Cincy.) It concludes that it was not worth it in 2001, and recommends rethinking the issue if the proposed HSR line from Chicago to Cincy is built. Of course, the 3-C's idea was hardly even a glimmer back then. And putting a dogleg at the end of Chgo-Cincy wouldn't have been the most efficient way to Louisville anyway. My guess is that they will consider this route (meaning do a new study of ridership potential if the 3-C is built. But right now, there is still some small but genuine doubt about whether Ohio will even follow through, as suggested by links in another thread.

Yes and if Kentucky wants service they need to come up with some funds too. Money talks, nothing else does.
Noel Weaver

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/loc ... 2207bbe93b

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Amtrak is one step closer to connecting Louisville to other major cities by train.

The initial plan was released in 2021, a new line would connect the River City to Indianapolis with a stop in Jeffersonville. From there, the routes go to Chicago or Washington D.C. which connect to other major cities.

...

This is a feasibility study being funded by the Biden’s administration. Pennies on the dollars it would take to initiate any service. Jeffersonvile is a smaller city in Indiana across the rather large Ohio River from Louisville. I do not see Kentucky paying for a train that does not run one inch in Kentucky, no matter how much Louisville would like it. I do not see Indiana paying for a train to almost reach downtown Louisville. So where will the state funding subsidies come from?

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:08 pmSo where will the state funding subsidies come from?

The City or a regional transit authority can commit to the local subsidy. That's how Mobile is approaching New Orleans - Mobile (State of Alabama will not subsidize it).

The Kentucky Cardinal was an oddball - one of the short mixed trains of the Warrington era, two or three MHCs or ExpressTrak boxcars with a coach. I recall reading something about serving the UPS Worldport was one motive but were their any other major commercial customers in Louisville?

The platform still exists, a stub with reverse move.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 053546007/

Money sought for Amtrak rail service between Louisville and Indianapolis
...
The Kentuckiana Regional Planning and Development Agency, in conjunction with Metro Government, submitted an application for a $500,000 planning grant Monday with the U.S. Department of Transportation and the Federal Railroad Administration to attempt to bring back rail service between Louisville and Indianapolis, said Greg Burress, community outreach specialist for KIPDA.

The Indiana Department of Transportation is submitting a similar plan regarding service between Indianapolis and Chicago, Burress said, adding KIPDA is in "full support of INDOT's plans."

Trains would stop between Indianapolis and Louisville in the Southern Indiana cities of Columbus and Jeffersonville, according to Amtrak's plan.
...