Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

electricron wrote:...Eventually, MSG will be replaced with something new. Only the future knows what it will be.

Would a new MSG have fewer support posts into the track level?

That depends on what, if anything, is above.

Lets say you built a replacement stadium above Penn Station. How would you build it with fewer obstructions?

Why are you building the replacement stadium above Penn? MSG has moved several times before and could easily move again.

More modern, lighter materials (e.g. less concrete) would probably result in a much lighter structure.

andrewjw wrote:Why are you building the replacement stadium above Penn?

Because a stadium is pretty much the perfect use case for a transit hub? People from everywhere getting to a point then back to wherever. MSG simply has the best transit connectivity of any major stadium in the US, period. Why throw that out?

MSG is probably in the best place possible for a stadium in NYC - look at what a mess the GWB gets during Yankees games, or the roads around CitiField(tm), or the US open, etc.

The air above roughly street level at Penn is useless for transit anyway. There's already way too much retail in NYC. Might as well put a stadium up there and make at least some money. All the old headhouse did was add a big heating/cooling/maintenance bill that the PRR didn't need.

What else would you put there? The real estate is simply way too valuable to leave undeveloped. You're not tearing down any landmark to redevelop it, so why the hell not put a better MSG in its place?

The MSG overbuild forced many support columns thru the platforms at track level and created the "rabbit warren" effect at the concourse levels.
The current bldg has been renovated way too many times to "upgrade" the facility with not so great results.
Believe NYC said it was time for MSG to move on to another site nearby.
Multi use office/apartment space,along with a open atrium space should replace MSG.

Backshophoss wrote:Multi use office/apartment space,along with a open atrium space should replace MSG.

I completely agree. MSG is actually underutilizing prime space that could see far greater benefit from higher density development.

Could a "higher density development" be lighter than a replacement MSG? With fewer support posts?

Could a new MSG be built as part of Penn South?

In any case, though, demo of MSG would be painstaking, and really, what would you put there? An office tower? Hotel?

Yes, offices, hotel and potentially some residential. All of it would be nearly certain to be highly profitable.

MTA sits on a ton of real estate; they should be able to monetize it instead of subsidizing the Dolans.

Jeff Smith wrote:Could a new MSG be built as part of Penn South?

In any case, though, demo of MSG would be painstaking, and really, what would you put there? An office tower? Hotel?

One architect had a rather interesting plan - keep the Garden, but rip out the old Felt Forum theatre (now the Theatre at MSG). This theatre is actually what sits right above Penn's current waiting area. The Garden sits much higher.

Ripping the theatre out would allow the ceiling of the waiting room to be opened up more to the sky.

JamesRR wrote:One architect had a rather interesting plan - keep the Garden, but rip out the old Felt Forum theatre (now the Theatre at MSG). This theatre is actually what sits right above Penn's current waiting area. The Garden sits much higher.

Ripping the theatre out would allow the ceiling of the waiting room to be opened up more to the sky.

That was one of my favorite plans out of the whole bunch. Simple, yet effectively opens up a few floors' worth of overhead. If the Dolans had wanted to keep a theater, a rather large one would fit nicely into the old Post Office.

Would removing the theater allow support posts to be removed from the track level?

BandA wrote:Would removing the theater allow support posts to be removed from the track level?

I'm not an architect or structural engineer and don't have the MSG/PSNY plans, but probably not.

The ideal would be to take off the entire overburden, open it back up to track level as was done in 1964, and start over.