Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

Hypno's ?

I wonder if running them as a control cars would be a violation of the lease terms based on intended use. Doesn’t sound like the intended use, but I am an equipment finance attorney on the lessor side by training so I might be naturally taking a harder line.

I would use them as control cars, but limit them to the Keystone Service using their pantographs for HEP only.

The HHPs are extremely problematic as we know. The central block of the HHP has been decommissioned but not removed. All components are still in the loco but stuff is bypassed/cut out i dont know how they were able to get them to function as a cab car yet but we shall see

Well, truth is stranger than fiction. Who'd thought this could happen to the HHP8s?

The AEM7s seemed to have higher chances of returning to service in some form.

The problem here is the HHPs are on the property. The AEM7s would have been much better suited but amtrak no longer owns any.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:49 pm HHP8 691 is currently in DC to be utilized as a test train for HHP8 cab car use (without its pantographs) for alleged service on the Vermonter and Ethen Allen.

Look for 90691 to be on the roster, should this "experiment" prove successful. Since Amtrak has previously "had their knuckles rapped" for tampering with the lessor's equipment, they obviously have struck a deal with them.

I understand, owing to the apparent direction reversal at Rutland, need for such when the Ethan Allen is extended to Burlington, but why The Vermonter?

I guess owing to the withdrawal of most Talgo sets from the Cascade service and owing to the quick equipment turnarounds out there, as well as the "Duckbill Platypuses" likely not compatible with the now-assigned Horizon equipment, Amtrak found themselves short of 902XX NPCU's.

The Metroliners are clearly wore out and probably don't have the capacity to meet the pre-COVID service levels let alone any additions. There have been more Keystones rolling bookended by two ACS-64s recently. Another option would be to see if SEPTA wanted to lease some of its Toasters in storage to Amtrak. At least the SEPTA Toasters are PTC capable.

That's great news. Not ideal perhaps but better than paying to maintain 'em just to have them sit in storage. I'm glad they'll be getting some use. Now if only we could find a place to run those orphaned Wisconsin Talgos...

I thought I read the talgos were already scrapped?

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:00 pm That's great news. Not ideal perhaps but better than paying to maintain 'em just to have them sit in storage. I'm glad they'll be getting some use. Now if only we could find a place to run those orphaned Wisconsin Talgos...

That's how I look at it as well. Using assets they already have, as a hold over measure until they get new cab cars through the Siemens procurement, makes more sense rather than having to pay/lease more rolling stock for something that is temporary. Excited to see them running around if it all works out.

David Benton wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:35 pm I thought I read the talgos were already scrapped?

Only the Cascades Series VI Talgos (which I'm not sure if they were actually scrapped yet). The Series 8 Talgos are still in use at Cascades and the Hiawatha sets are still sitting in limbo, not in use.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:08 pm

Shortline614 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:06 pm In the most recent issue of Trains Magazine, there was an article titled "What you should see in 2022." The MARC HHP-8s specifically was #8. If you recall, MARC stored them during the pandemic, leaving many to believe they would be gone forever. Luckily for railfans, MARC pulled them out of storage last summer, and now Amtrak is converting them into cab cars. I've seen two pictures of them on discord in what is clearly Union Station. Truly a bizarre but welcome sight!

Wait, is it the MARC owned hippos (which were rebuilt, and I think had new software installed)that are being converted, or amtrak convoluted leased units?

Can't be the MARC HHP8's. They would be in use on the Penn line since they're on full schedule now... and they're numbered 4910 through 4915. Amtrak uses 680-694... so these are Amtrak units. If they were MARC units, they would have different livery, the numbers reported would be different, and MTA Maryland would of gotten some cash out of the deal... which has not been reported.

So... cab cars, eh? Hook those up with the new Venture sets, and Amtrak saved itself some cash. Makes me wonder about that settlement with Phillip-Morris...

Philip Morris also owns some Acela trainsets.

I thought MARC was planning to go all diesel?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:09 am

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:49 pm HHP8 691 is currently in DC to be utilized as a test train for HHP8 cab car use (without its pantographs) for alleged service on the Vermonter and Ethen Allen.

Look for 90691 to be on the roster, should this "experiment" prove successful. Since Amtrak has previously "had their knuckles rapped" for tampering with the lessor's equipment, they obviously have struck a deal with them.

I understand, owing to the apparent direction reversal at Rutland, need for such when the Ethan Allen is extended to Burlington, but why The Vermonter?

I guess owing to the withdrawal of most Talgo sets from the Cascade service and owing to the quick equipment turnarounds out there, as well as the "Duckbill Platypuses" likely not compatible with the now-assigned Horizon equipment, Amtrak found themselves short of 902XX NPCU's.

The use of HHP's on the Vermonter might be to allow longer trains. Currently the Vermonter is limited to 5 cars and the P42. This is due to the length of the wye at St Albans where the train is turned. That is the only reason I can think of for wanting a cab car on the Vermonter. The added weight of an HHP cab car as opposed to a 9600 Metroliner cab car would also help in the winter at ice covered grade crossings.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:58 pm Philip Morris also owns some Acela trainsets.

I thought MARC was planning to go all diesel?

That all changed with the HHP-8 rehabs working too well and the Fredrick Douglas Tunnel going forward, requiring MARC to eventually run all electric on the NEC.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:53 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:58 pm Philip Morris also owns some Acela trainsets.

I thought MARC was planning to go all diesel?

That all changed with the HHP-8 rehabs working too well and the Fredrick Douglas Tunnel going forward, requiring MARC to eventually run all electric on the NEC.

Silly question, why wouldn't Phillip Morris allow some of it's Hippos to be gutted for parts to keep the acela's it owns running?

MARC should be getting a good deal on the 64s, in a few years. I'm guessing the GP39s will be retired when those show up.