Amtrak Great Dome Schedule Sightings Status

CSXT's ex Con Rail Great Dome car is allegedly 15 feet, 8 inches high, while Amtrak's is allegedly 15 feet, 10 inches high. One fits in the Lower Level of Philadelphia's 30th St. Station, the other doesn't. The CSXT ex Con Rail Great Dome car had to detour past Wilmington, Del. station via the Shellpot Branch.
When the American Association of Private Rail Car Owners ran a Convention Train to Hoboken with domes, allegedly the catenary was turned off.
There are places on the NorthEast Corridor and Philadelphia commuter lines where freight cars taller than domes are run under catenary, like West Trenton to Woodbourne and Ivy Rock to Norristown.

Patrick Boylan wrote:I think the Crescent had domes, but only south of Atlanta or perhaps DC.

Mr. Boylan is correct. Southern Railway operated dome parlor car 1602 on their Southern Crescent between Atlanta and New Orleans, from approximately 1970 through 1979. I had the pleasure of riding it on Labor Day weekend 1977.

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On occasions, Southern Railway dome coach 1613 substituted for dome parlor 1602 between Atlanta and New Orleans.

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And the other Mr Boylan's probably also correct. Stretching my memory back further I think I remember Jimmy Sparkman showing film of a dome car ride across Lake Ponchartrain, and him mentioning that they had to take the dome off of the train somewhere. As I grew older and wiser I realized it must have been no further north than DC, and figured further that other than super rabid foamers, nobody would care to ride the dome at night, so it made sense to pull the car at Atlanta.

I tested that theory the first time I rode the Capitol Limited from Chicago. Sure enough the only 2 people in the dome most of the night were 2 of the craziest foaming railfans you'd ever meet, in other words I and my buddy had the dome all to ourselves.

Mr. Deasey, thanks for sharing those pictures. I've never seen a smooth-sided SOU lightweight. It's especially ironic they painted it dark green in heavy contrast to the stainless train, when the Wabash felt a silver mist spray would make it match their stainless fleet.

Thanks for all of the responses. Here's a question: hypothetically, could the LSL carry a dome provided it set the car out at Albany or Croton-Harmon? Or would there be other clearance issues west of Albany?

Dreezy wrote:Thanks for all of the responses. Here's a question: hypothetically, could the LSL carry a dome provided it set the car out at Albany or Croton-Harmon? Or would there be other clearance issues west of Albany?

The last time I checked, the route of Amtrak trains 48/49 between Chicago and Croton-Harmon can clear a standard height vista-dome car. The vertical clearance obstruction is south of Croton-Harmon on Metro North RR. I think it was an overpass or structure by the GM auto assembly plant at North Tarrytown, which closed in 1996.

Amtrak trains 48/49 handle privately owned dome cars between Chicago and Albany-Rensselaer, cars enroute to/from Montreal on Amtrak trains 68/69. That would also be the routing used for moving Amtrak's own x-GN full dome lounge for autumn service on trains 68/69 between Albany-Rensselaer and Montreal.

Dreezy wrote:Thanks for all of the responses. Here's a question: hypothetically, could the LSL carry a dome provided it set the car out at Albany or Croton-Harmon? Or would there be other clearance issues west of Albany?

No height issues, but you wouldn't be able to board at any full-high platforms on any car in the Hi-level/Superliner form factor because the doors are only designed only for lows. That does make Albany functionally the northeastern end point since all Hudson Line territory is either high platforms or (north of Poughkeepsie) eventually going to be. For the same reason you can't do them even on northeastern railroads that do run full-height bi-levels like the MBTA. A dome or Superliner couldn't run on the Boston-flank LSL because of the full-highs at Worcester, South Station, and the pending installation in Springfield. They couldn't run on the Downeaster because of full highs at North Station, Anderson/Woburn, Portland, and Brunswick. And they can't run on the Springfield Shuttle because every stop on the Springfield Line is about to be renovated to full-high.

Hypothetically, you wouldn't need necessarily to have to worry about the platform type for domes, as you could always go to the next car to detrain. Besides, any heritage domes would most likely work with low platforms. But a Superliner wouldn't work at all.

BTW, an Am just got a dome car to add to their business train. Assuming they will run it on their routes which include the Hoosac Tunnel. Looks like it has normal platform loading (ie - with traps/stairs).

jp1822 wrote:I thought there was an issue with 30th St station, if say a dome travelled between Harrisburg and Philly? I am ignoring the hi level platforms at 30th St Station as I think there is still one track at the station that may have low level platform access. I thought the main issue east of Harrisburg was catenary clearance.

You're probably thinking of the Amtrak Dome car (10031) which may not enter 30th street station.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Due to the tunnel clearances, could trains with cars exceeding 14'-5" use HOB instead of NYP (also with low level boarding)?

As long as it is below 15'6" on Amtrak territory. Otherwise, it won't make it past EWR (Lane)

comparing domes to double stacks may offer some clue. Containers are 8ft or 9ft 6 in. Clearances need to be 18ft 2 in to 20ft 2 in to allow the most flexibility with the 9ft 6 in containers.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

jp1822 wrote:I thought there was an issue with 30th St station, if say a dome travelled between Harrisburg and Philly? I am ignoring the hi level platforms at 30th St Station as I think there is still one track at the station that may have low level platform access. I thought the main issue east of Harrisburg was catenary clearance.

You're probably thinking of the Amtrak Dome car (10031) which may not enter 30th street station.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Due to the tunnel clearances, could trains with cars exceeding 14'-5" use HOB instead of NYP (also with low level boarding)?

As long as it is below 15'6" on Amtrak territory. Otherwise, it won't make it past EWR (Lane)

I would think that a Superliner car is taller than the Great Dome -aka car 10031. As mentioned Amtrak did haul a few Superliners into 30th Street Station Philadelphia for a press or publicity event.

Well, it might be nice to ride a dome under wire but I WOULD WANT NO PART OF IT. I have seen what somethng hanging from an 11,000 catenary wire can do to both passenger cars and locomotives. I struck something handing from the trolley wire on a River Line freight train just east of Journal Square in the days when there were still energised wires in that area and it was not pretty. It knocked all of the low voltage circuits out on all four diesels although we still had power to move and continued to Weehawken but no farther. I was the engineer on train 61 one morning (The Montrealer) when a wire came down in Southport, Connecticut just after we pass by the area in darkness (early AM). There was a flash and we lost our power but the wire that came down grounded out on one of the coaches and burned a hole right through the stainless steel. I would not want to have been a passenger in that particular coach much less a dome. High voltage AC is not something to be fooling with and grave consequences can and probably will result if a ground and flash occurs.
On another note, Croton/Harmon is strictly a Metro-North facility today so I doubt if Amtrak could regularly operate a dome car to that point and expect it to be turned and serviced there as well as switched in to and out of a passenger train. Croton/Harmon is a very busy place and the Amtrak trains that stop there just stop and do their station work and depart as quickly as possible, switching out a car would tie up need track space and create a lot of problems both for Metro-North and Amtrak as well.
Noel Weaver

IIRC, we could not handle domes on the Hudson Division south of Rensselaer because of low clearances at numerous points. This was not resolved until the clearance project to enable autoracks to serve Tarrytown.

There were some occasions when high equipment made it to Rensselaer and was switched out there. However, the clearance point on the Mohawk side was the Selkirk Branch bridge east of Hoffmans, and we had to walk some equipment through that point.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

Dreezy wrote:Thanks for all of the responses. Here's a question: hypothetically, could the LSL carry a dome provided it set the car out at Albany or Croton-Harmon? Or would there be other clearance issues west of Albany?

No height issues, but you wouldn't be able to board at any full-high platforms on any car in the Hi-level/Superliner form factor because the doors are only designed only for lows. That does make Albany functionally the northeastern end point since all Hudson Line territory is either high platforms or (north of Poughkeepsie) eventually going to be. For the same reason you can't do them even on northeastern railroads that do run full-height bi-levels like the MBTA. A dome or Superliner couldn't run on the Boston-flank LSL because of the full-highs at Worcester, South Station, and the pending installation in Springfield. They couldn't run on the Downeaster because of full highs at North Station, Anderson/Woburn, Portland, and Brunswick. And they can't run on the Springfield Shuttle because every stop on the Springfield Line is about to be renovated to full-high.

We're missing something really big here.

1. Amtrak owns one dome car, "Ocean View". It operates seasonally on a few scenic routes but because there's only one it's hard to advertise or manage as a real service.

2. It's a former Great Northern car built by Budd. Most (if not all) Budd lightweight cars have traps for high or low level loading and would work at either level platform. This is a moot point as Amtrak blanked off the door on this car. Non-revenue cars like diners and lounges rarely board passengers. Passengers are boarded from coaches and sleepers.

Notice there is no door:


Here's a standard dome car retired from Amtrak's fleet showing a trap door for high or low boarding - both photos from Bob Coolidge's awesome site (Check it out!)

Traps down


Traps up

ThirdRail7 wrote:

jp1822 wrote:I thought there was an issue with 30th St station, if say a dome travelled between Harrisburg and Philly? I am ignoring the hi level platforms at 30th St Station as I think there is still one track at the station that may have low level platform access. I thought the main issue east of Harrisburg was catenary clearance.

You're probably thinking of the Amtrak Dome car (10031) which may not enter 30th street station.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Due to the tunnel clearances, could trains with cars exceeding 14'-5" use HOB instead of NYP (also with low level boarding)?

As long as it is below 15'6" on Amtrak territory. Otherwise, it won't make it past EWR (Lane)

There is a 15'5" height restriction in the Bergen Tunnels and Hoboken train shed.