Safetee wrote:My gut feeling is that something has to give. I think that Amtrak could easily send it's Empire trains to Grand Central but that wont relieve too much pressure. No question that Penn is the NEC bridge between Boston and Washington so Amtrak corridor traffic has to be protected. Long island RR has no where else to go so they're staying. NJT is the elephant in the room. Maybe the best cheapest alternative is to put some if not all of those Jersey commuters back on the boats.
GCT is pretty much at capacity with MNRR, particularly at rush hour. And as you say, the Empire Service isn't the issue.
The problem with putting the Jersey commuters "back on the boats" is that the Manhattan office center-of-gravity has shifted since the heyday of the Hudson commuter ferries back before WW2, when the CNJ, PRR, Erie, DL&W and NYC-West Shore ran their own "navies" out of their terminals in Jersey City, Hoboken and Weehawken. In those days the majority of office space was below Chambers St., in the area we now call the Financial District. There were some secondary pockets around Union Square and in the Times Square area, and in the blocks surrounding Grand Central, but most commuters were heading to Lower Manhattan. And if you look at the map you'll see that because the island narrows substantially south of Canal Street most of the Financial District is at most a 20 minute walk from the North River ferry slips.
That changed substantially from the 1960's on, to the point that today the bulk of Manhattan office space is in Midtown, in the area that stretches between 8th Ave. and 2nd Ave from 34th St on the south to 59th St on the north. That makes the ferries a much more difficult proposition. From my office on 42nd & 5th for instance it's at least a 30 minute walk to the West Side ferry terminal at Pier 78. The crosstown bus can take even longer because of the traffic.
Greg Moore wrote:BTW, to give you an idea on a bridge. I believe the Coast Guard requires on the Hudson up to Albany 110' clearance. Or you need a lift or swing or something. That's a non-starter given the amount of boat vs train traffic.
So, even at a 2% grade, 110' clearance, well I'll let you do the math.
And the Pennsylvania Railroad did the math way back in the 1890's. And that's why they threw out Gustav Lindenthal's plans for the North River Bridge and built the tunnels instead.
