Amtrak Expansion Plan

Didn’t the Silver Star used to terminate at Tampa once upon a time, or am I misremembering things?

And here’s a thought: Amtrak continues running NYP-ORL-TPA on the current route (moving to the S-Line in VA/NC when available) but moves one of the Silvers to the Brightline route ORL-MIA. Maybe a new Silver Palm could run that route... through-ticketed with Brightline, somehow.

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:35 am Didn’t the Silver Star used to terminate at Tampa once upon a time, or am I misremembering things?

And here’s a thought: Amtrak continues running NYP-ORL-TPA on the current route (moving to the S-Line in VA/NC when available) but moves one of the Silvers to the Brightline route ORL-MIA. Maybe a new Silver Palm could run that route... through-ticketed with Brightline, somehow.

Years ago the Star used to split into two sections in Auburndale and one section went west to Tamp and the other south to Miami. As Jeff mentions above, a long time ago Amtrak used to continue to St. Petersburg on a very slow circuitous routing around the bay.

There is no existing or planned connection between Amtrak and Brightline in Orlando. That would not be easy. I have not heard anything of Brightline planning a NW leg of a wye in the Cocoa area which would be needed for a Jacksonville - Orlando/Tampa route. I guess Amtrak could run something that way if it was ever built but that would bypass their downtown station.

How much of the running-all-the-way-to-Miami for the tampa train is just to minimize the terminal costs to one facility in Miami?

I've got an idea that is a non-starter but occurred to me last year:

A rail crossing of Chesapeake Bay mirroring the current Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Straight down from Wilmington on to Hampton Roads. I had never done the Bridge-Tunnel before and last year had cause to do it 3 times (twice down, one up, the other back via DC). On either of them, I would have considered the train and actually did take the train to Wilmington to get a rental car.

Pure fantasy, but interesting to consider what could be for both passenger and freight with this route that avoids the I-95 corridor.

I think the extension beyond Tampa was merely to St. Petersburg.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:29 pm I've got an idea that is a non-starter but occurred to me last year:

A rail crossing of Chesapeake Bay mirroring the current Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Straight down from Wilmington on to Hampton Roads. I had never done the Bridge-Tunnel before and last year had cause to do it 3 times (twice down, one up, the other back via DC). On either of them, I would have considered the train and actually did take the train to Wilmington to get a rental car.

Pure fantasy, but interesting to consider what could be for both passenger and freight with this route that avoids the I-95 corridor.

Let’s also do a trans-Roads crossing NPN-NFK while we are at it!

And if we don’t get all the way south down the Delmarva, can we at least send a train to Dover and possibly (near) Ocean City?

My sister lived in Dover a few years. Not sure how much traffic there was back then, but I'd imagine today could be needed. Dover's got the AFB and NASCAR track as well, and if IIRC, Dover Downs horse racing.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:29 pm I've got an idea that is a non-starter but occurred to me last year:

A rail crossing of Chesapeake Bay mirroring the current Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Straight down from Wilmington on to Hampton Roads. I had never done the Bridge-Tunnel before and last year had cause to do it 3 times (twice down, one up, the other back via DC). On either of them, I would have considered the train and actually did take the train to Wilmington to get a rental car.

Pure fantasy, but interesting to consider what could be for both passenger and freight with this route that avoids the I-95 corridor.

Tell you what I think would be far more useful - a rail crossing between Hampton and Norfolk parallel to I-64. It's kind of crazy that there are two Amtrak lines to service one metro area. Now they have to maintain two stations in the area, both pretty crummy. Either light rail or Amtrak connection across the bay would be really nice.

It's not at all unprecedented. Take a look at the hub and spoke radials elsewhere and you'll see what I mean. NFK and NPN are unique in terms of the "fork" shape of their lines coming in which are also run out in the same general direction but that is only a quirk of geography.

It's also worth remembering that what you're seeing here is also a product of population growth. Years ago this level of service couldn't be justified. Now they can hardly live without it.

Also positive in my eyes that Amtrak will not be capacity constrained at these stations anytime soon. They need the room to grow on both branches.

Right, but there's something like 3x/day between the two branches. Why pay two sets of trackage rights, two terminals, two cleaning crews, etc? Compare it to the Empire Corridor - wouldn't it be nuts to have 3x/day go up the west shore to Schenectady?

I ride the train into NPN a few times a year, and the stations are gross old 70's Amtrak style places in a run down part of town. A central unified station with a high platform and two tracks where trains could lay over would be so much nicer than the current NPN where trains have to clear out of the way for some reason.

For starters, Newport News and Norfolk Amtraks are a whole half hour drive from eachother. the south side line brings service to Petersburg and has better connections to Virginia Beach while the North side line brings service to Williamsburg. One is quicker, one is more central. Both could probably benefit from more frequencies either way

How about a compromise, a train from Wilmington "partway" down the DelMarVa peninsula, (others can pick the best termination point) and then a bus over the bridge to tie into the existing station(s). It's all part of the network and the network matters.

That said, since I ended up renting a car, I ended up staying at an AirBNB somewhere in the middle of the peninsula that was amazing and wonderful. They promised goats, but I had to get up too early in the morning to catch my train to see them. Ah, another time.

Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm Right, but there's something like 3x/day between the two branches. Why pay two sets of trackage rights, two terminals, two cleaning crews, etc? Compare it to the Empire Corridor - wouldn't it be nuts to have 3x/day go up the west shore to Schenectady?

If things were going to remain that way I might agree. If this were 1968 and the mail has just come off the trains I would likewise agree with consolidation. But thankfully it's not.

Virginia intends to grow both of these lines and I would not be surprised to see them get up to 10x+ per day on each line. I'm sure a new station for NPN is in the making as well. They're laying the ground work for a lot of growth and trying to stay ahead of the curve.

What I discovered during my time at William & Mary was that the geographical constraints and bottlenecks make for some serious traffic issues, and transit development certainly lags.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-qaozQHJls ... n75f6nw140

To what extent Amtrak's Newport News and Norfolk services would benefit from better connectivity between the two I don't know, but it is an odd case of two very different routes serving almost a common endpoint.

This used to happen with Boston and the regionals.