Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[gokeefe]

Limited service has been considered and discussed extensively. At least one and maybe two New Hampshire stops would be skipped (not Exeter) ... Until the service is running at least six full round trips it probably won't be implemented.

[Cosakita18]

There are rich, influential people in Scarborough and North Berwick too. That's not something unique to Kennebunk.

Unless they're contributing their own money to the service, how does the Downeaster actually benefit from having those people on its side? If every in-between town demands a train station just because a rich influential resident says so, the service eventually becomes a milk train. Who in Portland is going to ride the Downeaster to Boston if the train has to make stops in South Portland, Scarborough, Old Orchard Beach, Saco, Biddeford, Arundel, Kennebunk, Wells, North Berwick, and South Berwick before it even makes it out of Maine?

The idea that every town with train tracks running through it deserves passenger rail service is why we keep hearing nutty ideas like commuter rail from Portland to Westbrook or light rail to East North Yarmouth or monorail to Portsmouth (don't laugh, it was a Portsmouth city councilor who suggested that).

I know for certain that Scarborough Town Council has discussed the idea of a station in the past, and I'm sure the idea has come up in Arundel and North Berwick and Rollinsford in the past. At what point does NNEPRA ignore these towns and focus on their existing stations and passengers. I know that can't be an easy question to answer

[Rockingham Racer]

More stops should equate to more trains, some of which are limited in their number of stops, which will necessitate PTC. IOW: money, money, money.

[gokeefe]

I know for certain that Scarborough Town Council has discussed the idea of a station in the past, and I'm sure the idea has come up in Arundel and North Berwick and Rollinsford in the past. At what point does NNEPRA ignore these towns and focus on their existing stations and passengers. I know that can't be an easy question to answer

What you see right now (including Kennebunk) is probably it for quite some time to come. I think West Falmouth remains an outside possibility.

I would not exclude the possibility of PTC installation by means of a TIGER grant or FTA capital grant. FTA would not cover as much as TIGER but it could provide part of one phase.

The Downeaster is unique in that it is considered a "commuter" service in addition to operating as "intercity" passenger rail. Consequently a greater variety of funding sources are available.

The answer to how NNEPRA deals with requests from towns in Maine would vary but for infill stations the bar is now going to be very high.

Scarborough is also exceptionally inconvenient to the former Western Route. Probably the best they could hope for would be operation of the OOB station year round.

[Arborwayfan]

Is OOB seasonal so they don't have to shovel the snow? I have wondered why they don't just make it "advance reservation only" -- not a flag stop, no need to slow down at all if no one has reserved a stop. Surely the conductors have that information in their devices.

Where do the people from the infill towns want to go? Boston, or Portland, or someplace else? The solution would depend on that. If lots of people in Kennebunk want to commute to Portland, a commuter service just in Maine could be justified (LOTS of people); if they want to go the other way, a commuter service just in Maine would not help.

If the demand is for weekend travel, could those stations be weekend-only stops? Friday night is then a problem -- conflict btwn commuters and weekenders.

Does Kennebunk have particular travellers in mind? Do they even say whether they are looking for service for their people to go other places vs. hoping to attract business to their town? This discussion seems to be assuming the first, based on comments about "influential residents" and whatnot, but I could be confused. (I would have thought every town on that stretch of coast had at least enough tourists, but I could be wrong. )

[gokeefe]

Old Orchard is seasonal in part because there is a perceived lack of demand for service in the winter. There are some in that community who strongly support year round service but at the moment they appear to be a splinter faction.

[MEC407]

Even during peak tourist season, ORB doesn't see a lot of passengers. The town is dead, dead, dead in the off-season. I once had a winter rental there, from October to February, and it really has the feel of a ghost town or an abandoned movie set.

[gokeefe]

Agreed on the second. As to the first the ridership is pretty remarkable in my opinion for the period that the station is open each year. Basically every train of the day will have riders coming and going. Generally about 5-10 on and 5-10 off average with fewer on the late trains. There are plenty of times when I've seen 12+. For a station that is continuing to develop ridership I feel those numbers are very promising. They are still growing a little more every year.

[Cowford]

As to the first the ridership is pretty remarkable in my opinion for the period that the station is open each year.

It's notable that in ATK FY17, OOB enjoyed 50% more patronage than the year-round Freeport station.

[gokeefe]

I have noticed that comparison as well. The feeling is still that the train pairs do not work well for Freeport. That being said it's a disappointing result regardless. I had far higher hopes for that station than what we've seen so far.

Old Orchard is doing well and continues to grow along with the service as a whole. If we use the post-Brunswick figures as a baseline I don't see any stagnation or retrenchment. Ridership is literally setting records.

Hopefully we will continue to see improvements in OTP along with all the new ridership.

[Rockingham Racer]

A quick side question: how much-- if any-- advertising is done in the Boston market for the Downeaster?

[TomNelligan]

A quick side question: how much-- if any-- advertising is done in the Boston market for the Downeaster?

There are a number of poster ads in MBTA subway stations citing the "Train to Maine". They've been there for quite a while. I've also seen a few print ads in the Sunday travel section of the Boston Globe.

[Dick H]

During the "parking season " at Old Orchard beach, anyone boarding there
heading to Boston or some intermediate stop for the day, will be paying
big bucks to park in private lots. I have not been able to find the charges
for the town meters, but they probably have a number of hours restriction.
With that in mind, it is probably cheaper to drive to Saco, where the
parking is free on a "first come, first save" basis. I do not know if the
lot fills up on occasion. It should be noted that train #680 does not stop
at Old Orchard, Monday through Friday. I believe that 2017 was the first
year of that non-stop. Perhaps, there were few, if any passengers boarding
at 5:35AM.

[gokeefe]

A quick side question: how much-- if any-- advertising is done in the Boston market for the Downeaster?

As Mr. Nelligan notes ... "Quite a bit". A very significant portion of NNEPRA's advertising budget is spent on the Boston market.

[Arborwayfan]

But OOB is for people from other places to get to the beach, and maybe for one member of a family staying in OOB to go to the city for a day. It is not meant as a stop for people going south or it would be open in the winter, too.

Right?

Does NNERPA or Amtrak keep track of hte origins and destinations of the round trips, or just total boardings and alightings? That is, can we tell if the majority of OOB pax are using the train to get from home to OOB, or if they live in or near OOB and are using the train to get away?