• Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by MEC407
 
Maine Eastern used a temporary/movable high platform in Brunswick for many years. I wonder where that ended up...
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Palmer5RR wrote:
Amtrak Downeaster to Kennebunk got kicked into high gear last week when selectmen voted 6-1
The Town of Kennebunk should talk to MassDOT about buying the temporary high level platforms built in Greenfield & Northampton designed to be reused. The article last year said;
Greenfield Recorder
Monday, October 6, 2014

GREENFIELD — The state will build a temporary 45-foot-long wooden train platform behind the regional bus and taxi depot to serve rail passengers until a permanent one is designed and built there over the next year.

Kelly Smith, a spokeswoman for Massachusetts Department of Transportation, which is overseeing and paying for the project, said the temporary train platform will be ready when passenger rail service arrives in Greenfield at the end of the year.

“This platform will be used for approximately one year while the permanent 400-foot-long concrete platform is designed and constructed,” said Smith. “The temporary wooden platform is designed so that it can be disassembled in a few major components and reused in part or entirety at another location.
MassDOT hasn't started on the permanent platforms yet maybe by the time Kennebunk is ready for them.
Western Route is a freight clearance route, so no full-highs without a freight passing track. Has to be the same retractable-edge mini-highs as all the other south-of-Portland stops (save for Anderson/Woburn, which does have the freight passing track). I don't think Pan Am is allowing construction of full-highs even if they're only on 1 track in double-track territory, just on the odds that second platforms will need to be built someday. If they want to get full level boarding they're going to have to invest in passing tracks...and only in the places where one will fit.
  by Rockingham Racer
 
What about Lawrence, then. All freights on track 1 or 17 by the station?
  by jbvb
 
There's no movable edge on the Lawrence platform. I don't know if freight has gone down that track since it was built, I don't know to what extent Pan Am keeps that close track of car sizes. I know Pan Am freights have run past the high platform at Malden.

[edit] And apropos of last month's questions about speeds on the Rockland line, MEC ETT #51 31-Oct-1954 gives maximums of 40 passenger, 30 freight. There are probably stretches which could be faster, but it appears the MEC never invested $$ to squeeze minutes out of the schedule. Consultants would actually have to do some work (vs. just looking back to 60 max on the Conway branch in the late 1950s and 50 max Rutland - Bellows Falls in the late 1940s).
  by mr. mick
 
Maybe I don't understand what a full high level platform is; Dover has a high level platform without a passing track, as does Durham, so why couldn't Kennebunk build one similar to Dover?
  by Dick H
 
There are "movable edges" on the high level platforms at Haverhill.
I believe they are made of wood and are "clipped" by PAR freights
now and then. The Downeasters are advised when they are out of
service. They are raised if a known extra wide move is planned,
but apparently the moves sometime get lost in the "shuffle".
  by MEC407
 
From the Portland Press Herald:
Portland Press Herald wrote:The Maine Board of Environmental Protection will hear an appeal of a permit approval for a Brunswick train layover facility next week in what could be the final regulatory step for the controversial project connected to Amtrak’s Downeaster service.

The Maine Department of Environmental Protection staff has recommended that the citizens board reject the attempt by the Brunswick West Neighborhood Coalition to stop construction of the 60,000-square-foot train holding and service facility.
. . .
The board’s verdict is unlikely to be the final chapter in the two-year-old permit process. If the board upholds the permit, the neighborhood coalition can file an appeal in Superior Court. If the coalition wins, the rail authority would have to work with the DEP to address the group’s concerns with the permit process.
. . .
Meanwhile, Wallace said neighbors and coalition members already have raised concerns that work crews and a third-party inspector are not doing enough to avoid pollution from contaminated soils that are being moved around and exposed on the site. Wallace said neighbors have made verbal complaints to the project manager, but have not yet filed any formal written complaints with the DEP.

The board may decide on the permit appeal during its Nov. 19 meeting, scheduled for 9 a.m. at the Elks Lodge in Augusta.
Read the rest of the article at: http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/10/d ... ty-appeal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
mr. mick wrote:Maybe I don't understand what a full high level platform is; Dover has a high level platform without a passing track, as does Durham, so why couldn't Kennebunk build one similar to Dover?
"High"-platform = a platform that has level boarding for either all the cars on the train, or multiple cars on the train.
"Mini-high"-platform = a platform that has level boarding for only 1 car, with the rest of the platform being low-level. This is what Dover and Durham have.


"Wide" freights won't clear a level-boarding platform. "Wide" really isn't any wider than a standard freight or passenger car, so it's a bit of a misnomer. Wide loads are either. . .
1) "long", where the car has a wider turning radius around curves. In this case, the car won't clear a high platform if there is any curvature. Track and platform must be 100% tangent.
2) "tall"", where the car's suspension has more lateral give to accommodate the higher center of gravity. Just like a bi-level passenger coach has somewhat different shocks than a single-level (but not nearly as dramatic a difference as top-heavy freight cars). These tall cars can clip the edge of a full-high, moreso when you're dealing with the harmonics of an entire train's worth of tall cars. You would have to slow the train down to uselessly restricted speed and excruciatingly inch it through the platform to minimize that lateral sway enough to prevent scrapes.
3) combination of (1) and (2)


Now...there is not a lot of regularly scheduled "wide" freight in New England outside of the big monster intermodal routes on CSX and Pan Am Southern. Or a lot of wide-clearance routes to begin with, because Penn Central, Conrail, and bankruptcy-era Boston & Maine gave up a lot of those routes during the mass downsizing of the 70's and 80's. PAR very seldom runs wide freight on the NH Main, and only middling amounts of wide-clearance freights on the Western Route. But because they are designated clearance routes protected by a mile-high stack of interstate commerce caselaw, any and all passenger platform installations have to accommodate those freights by default. It's non-negotiable. PAR has to voluntarily sign off with the FRA on waiving its clearance exemption from MP # to MP # (including MBTA territory where they have legacy rights) to untie hands on that. They clearly didn't do that for the original Downeaster build, and have no intention of doing so for the future because it limits the traffic growth they're seeking to Portland after Pan Am Southern starts firing on all cylinders to Ayer. It would be suicidal for them--or their chances of getting bought out by another RR at top asking price--to salt that over. So it'll never happen so matter how much NNEPRA or the MBTA try to woo them with money to drop the exemption. In pure dollars and sense, it would be bad business for PAR and bad business for Northern New England's economy to limit future intermodal traffic to Portland when that's the one type of freight that's got the most explosive growth upside for Maine.

--------------------

The only ways around this are:

1) Have a freight passing track that avoids the platform entirely. This is the case at Anderson/Woburn and Lawrence, where there are MBTA-regulation 800 ft./9-car high platforms installed. At Anderson the third track is where the wide loads turn out (I don't know if PAR passes through the platform for regular-dimension freights; that would be MBTA dispatch's call). At Lawrence there's just the single side platform on a passenger-only track and all freight moves on the other two tracks. Theoretically Lawrence can have a second high platform installed on the opposite side because there would still be a center passing track, although that would make for messy traffic conflicts.


2) Install 1-car mini-high platforms with retractable edges (depicted here at MBTA Wedgemere station on the NH Main, with the platform edge retracted in the freight clearance position). This is how all MBTA stops on the DE's route other than Anderson and Lawrence are equipped (or will be when the last non-ADA stragglers on the NH Main are settled up). A crewmember or MoW worker would flip the lever to retract the platform edge and lock it in advance of the freight train. Then reset it when the freight passes. This is how full ADA compliance is achieved when no passing tracks are available.

Obvious question (with answer): "Why can't you have a full-high with a retractable edge?" They limit the mini-highs to 1-car length because it prevents the lateral harmonics from the entire over-wide freight consist from causing any stray platform strikes. Platform strikes can still happen because that retractable edge doesn't free up *much* extra wiggle room. The 1-car length just limits the risk to negligible and benign level by virtue of only interfacing with 1 freight car and/or 1 set of couplers at a time, instead of many cars swaying in tandem at varying rates. And then there's the more practical considerations of having to assign extra staff to retract more sections of edging, higher maint costs, chances that multiple sections of edging might jam when being interlocked back together, and so on. Mechanical failures would be rampant if you tried that on a 9-car MBTA platform in a New England climate.


3) Install a single full-high side platform on a double-track line. Basically, Option #1 except the second track becomes the de facto freight passing track and the passenger RR is prohibited from installing a matching full-high in the opposite direction. They can install a mini-high for the opposite platform, but that can be a little controversial for ADA because the platforms wouldn't be co-equals on accessibility. Needs a pretty airtight legal case that the stop has its best possible accessibility in that configuration by virtue of running on both tracks (e.g. two tracks supports greater schedule frequencies than could be run through a single platform, and thus provides aggregately greater accessibility through increased frequencies).

Brunswick is a full-high because north-of-Portland service levels are unlikely to ever hit a density where a second platform will be needed there, or where a single platform serving all traffic (including future extensions or return of Rockland Branch excursion service) will ever become a major schedule constraint. Therefore, Track 2 is always going to remain a passing track. Pan Am does not want to allow this on the Western Route--and would be very ill-advised to do so--because both the DE and freight service levels are projected to increase enough where it would be a problem to mash everything onto a single side full-high platform. They need the future flex of double-track platforms, which means they're stuck with mini-highs unless the stations can be tri-tracked.


4) Do what Amtrak does and have station attendants and portable wheelchair lifts for basic ADA compliance at full-low platforms on clearance routes. Nearly all the legacy Vermonter stops north of the MA/VT state line are still full-low because of limited funding for mini-highs or passing tracks on the NECR clearance route. Obviously this only works with very limited schedules like a one-a-day and would never be an option anywhere on the Downeaster for adding cheap infill flag stops because the schedule is too dense to make it work. And the ADA frowns on this bigtime. It is, however, being deployed in new installations on the Ethan Allen Express extension where they are temporarily trialing new infill stops not originally planned for the extension...then playing catch-up later and either installing permanent platforms or dropping those stops if they don't produce viable ridership. That was worthy enough in terms of better "aggregate accessibility" in having the extra flag stops vs. not having them at all.

It also is an outright necessity on AMTK routes that outright cross between level boarding East Coast territory and the 8-inch low-boarding ADA platforms in the Midwest. For example, the Virginia NE Regionals can't have high platforms installed south of D.C. because VRE is a low-boarding commuter rail operation...and that isn't fixable without breaking VRE's ADA compliance unless you fund a complete and total platform raising blitz across their entire system and buy them entirely new rolling stock. A number of LD trains also have to cross into 8-inch territory. The Lake Shore Limited west of Buffalo, for example, will never have full-highs and has to make do with station attendants and porta-lifts for ADA compliance. That ends up being OK because there's no other practical way to do it.

-------------------------

For the record, the only Amtrak routes in Northeastern high-platform territory affected by freight clearance exemptions are:
-- Downeaster (end-to-end exemption on PAR)
-- Vermonter (north of Springfield on PAS and NECR; PAS signed off on single side full-highs, and NECR may be amenable to same if 2nd track installed)
-- Ethan Allen Express (north of Schenectady on both CP and VRS; VRS may be amenable to single side full-highs if 2nd track installed, CP very unlikely)
-- Adirondack (north of Schenectady on CP)

The Empire Corridor west of Schenectady on CSX, Inland Route/Boston Lake Shore Limited on CSX, and the Keystones on the small portions that overlap the converging/diverging freight mains are all clearance routes where every station has options (pre-existing or future) or outright plans for full-highs w/passing tracks. No need to live with mini-highs on any of those routes. Pennsylvanian west of Harrisburg *may* also be OK depending on how Norfolk Southern feels about passing track installs or single side full-high platforms in constrained areas, but that's so far down the priority pile nobody's inquired yet.

So we're not talking a large number of affected routes. Mini-highs and other restrictions are mainly a consideration well outside the heart of the East Coast megalopolis on routes with smallish schedules. Comparatively speaking, the Downeaster is the densest schedule Amtrak runs in territory that is stuck with the mini-highs forever. And that's really not too shabby, since the DE still never projects to run a crush-load enough schedule where dwell times at a mini-high station are ever going to become a problem.
  by Watchman318
 
MEC407 wrote:Maine Eastern used a temporary/movable high platform in Brunswick for many years. I wonder where that ended up...
Newcastle, I believe. I think it was at Wiscasset for awhile, until the stopping place got moved from the old (as in Maine Coast-era) location just east of Water St. to where the MERR caboose is/was, just east of Main St./US Rt. 1. Some MERR guys built a really nice wooden wheelchair ramp up to the platform at Newcastle. Other locations had sections of metal ramps to make the not-more-than 1:12 slope required by the ADA (42 USC Chap. 126).

I think there were three of those, originally Brunswick, Bath, and Rockland.
This just reminded me of a kinda funny story about the one at Brunswick; I'll PM it to you, if that's okay.
  by MEC407
 
Please do. :-)
  by west point
 
F-line: A much better though more expensive solution to some routes is having a station track. It can be either high level or low level depending on the type of equipment serving the station. The station track would turn out from the main ( on double track turn away from both main tracks. Once there is a certain level of Passenger traffic another station track can be built across from 1st platform track. This IMO is what will be needed on the Empire corridor and WASH - Richmond lines. Maybe even Pennsylvanian route and CHI - STL in future.That way when the eventual 4 tracking occurs the station tracks become part of main track or a gauntlet track can be built. Our worry is VRE is going to have to completely rebuild its stations when the 4 main tracking occurs. Gauntlet tracks can be a solution where ever there is not enough clearances for full station tracks.
This allows for meets with a freight waiting on the main clearing the approach switch until passenger train enters station track then freight can continue.
One excellent present example is the Capital corridor station at Oakland coliseum station. This is a single, low level station platform for superliner equipment. The station is located on a UP 2 main track section. There are signal controlled switches at each end of the station. Trains can enter / exit station track onto either main track at each end thru CPs. As well passenger trains can lay over at the station since a few west bound Capitol corridor trains lay over at this station.
Another advantage exiting from controlled sidings are the station exiting signals allowing trains to make Max authorized speed as soon a clearing CP exit speed..
  by mr. mick
 
From the Trainriders/NE website: site: On Thursday, Nov. 19th, the Department of Environmental Protection will hear arguments on the Brunswick West Neighborhood Coalition's appeal of the permit that has allowed NNEPRA to begin construction of the Brunswick Layover Facility. You can obtain more information either from the website noted,, or the Portland Press Herald story in yesterdays paper.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
west point wrote:F-line: A much better though more expensive solution to some routes is having a station track. ..
That's the same thing as a freight passing track, only the mainline acts as the passing track(s) from the passenger turnout. Same name, different game. Lawrence is set up like this. So is Worcester Union Station. So is Saratoga Springs (although it's currently a non-ADA low) on the Adirondack + EAE.


Gauntlets are an option of true last resort. NJ Transit has them at Union and Roselle Park on the Raritan Valley Line where commuter rail briefly overlaps with the Conrail Lehigh Line freight main. To my knowledge those are the only such installations around a full-high in the country. NJT can justify that because those stations have too little room for passing tracks, and both the passenger and wide-load freight schedules are too intense for constant, all-day flippings of a mini-high's retractable edge to be practical without harming somebody's frequencies. Otherwise gauntlets are avoided like the plague because they're maintenance-intensive, and the derailment risk is little higher which makes them a poor idea around side platforms where a car could tip over and strike the opposite side platform with maximum force. Both of NJT's gauntlet installations are center islands where if the freight train derails the cars are going to fall harmlessly away from the platform into a ditch or scrape the platform edge and come to a quick rest without tipping.

There's no Amtrak route that meets the extraordinary circumstances of those two NJT gauntlet installations where the schedules for both passenger and freight are too intense to make the retractable mini-highs practical. So it's not going to be a consideration anywhere as a mini-high alternative. So mini-highs will forever be a necessity in the Northeast in places where there flat-out isn't room to add a passing track, or where operations are too ham-fisted to do a full-high on one mainline track but not the other. The Downeaster's intermediate stops south of Portland...most of them don't have room for >2 tracks because nearly all are situated in densely-abutted downtown locations, and the platforms will someday need to be doubled-up as the Western Route gets more double-tracking to meet freight + passenger demand. Wells is probably the only existing stop that has room for two facing high platforms and a passing track since it's the only non-downtown stop and the nearby I-95 overpass is wide enough for way more tracks. Haverhill, Exeter, Durham, Dover, Saco, and Old Orchard Beach are much too pinned-in by abutting density and adjacent bridges to grow to be more than double-track with facing mini-highs.
  by nomis
 
Aside: Gauntlets in MBTA area territory: TF Green station currently has special concrete ties for a gauntlet track.
  by NH2060
 
And don't forget Track 3 @ Old Saybrook which has a full high level platform (albeit only 4-5 cars long).
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