Amtrak Auto Train Discussion

Writing this on the northbound Autotrain somewhere in Georgia. Finally moved the family down last weekend and drove straight through from Boston. The trip was horrible. Traffic was insane. Passed Lorton terminal after about 10 hours of driving.

Taking the Autotrain back. Lots of talking in the lounge car and much of it wishing the train ran further north.

I will second that wish. Going to take it back down in a few weeks and hate the thought of driving to Lorton. People are complaining of driving for three hours or six hours to get home.

So far things are great. Crew is excellent and it's nice to ride in a Superliner again. Trying coach which I haven't done in many many years. Diner was good and not the menu that is online. There were even flowers back on the tables. Half the lounge is being used for overflow dining and the bar is downstairs.

No more movies although the flat screens are still in the lounge car. Remembering there was a solo entertainer in the Starlight Lounge on the original Auto Train on my first trip many years ago.

Anyway this sure beats driving that long distance. Sanford is perfect for me at the Southern end so at least that's a big plus. Many people drove for hours to the Florida terminal. Florida is a huge state.

Really glad this service is available. I got a feeling that a lot of people don't even know it exists. Hope a second train is added perhaps running a few hours later.

Plan on being a loyal customer.

Drove back from Lorton today. Trusted Google Maps again for the quickest trip. I basically reversed the trip via the GW Bridge. At least 45 minutes to cross the bridge and a $15 toll! It took 10 1/2 hours. I guess that means leaving at 4 AM to make the 2:30 cut-off although I hope the traffic won't be that bad so early in the morning.

The train was great but the ride to and from there is horrible and according to AT regulars, it is getting worse every year.

We left 20 minutes early and got in right on time.

Try the Tapan Zee Bridge, it's $10 cheaper, and Garden State Parkway tolls to get to it are also less than the North end of the New Jersey Turnpike. You also miss the New England Thruway toll.

Mr. Boylan, lest we forget that tolls on George AND the NE Thruway are collected Northbound only.

With stories like btg's, I see why everyone is asking about a NYC-area Auto Train terminus. It's becoming more and more possible too, with CSX's clearance projects and places such as the NYNJ float terminal as a good load-out point for a late-day departure & overnight to Lorton, and early-day arrival after an overnight to NY Harbor.

Mr. Stephens, all of these points have been addressed in past discussion:

1) 4 sets for an NY area-Sanford operation.

2) 22hrs on the train when "overnight is enough" for the clientele.

3) CSX agreement to handle over the B&O; NS to handle over the RDG, and finally NJT for over the CNJ.

4) Agreement with CSX calls for one route only, although Amtrak under RPSA 70 has lawful authority to develop other routes.

5) Although the "creep" of the closing hour has not helped the cause, nor has the massive "suburbanization" of Northern Virginia, Lorton is in a position to draw traffic from anywhere along the Corridor, and some inland locations as well without any kind of "double back".

Leave it in Lorton.

Until Auto Train is book full consistently for many days any expansion is premature. Then maybe another one several hours off the present schedule maybe heavier travel days ? It could even be a second section ? That statement recognizes that there will be seasonal directional full trains. That of course gets back to the lack of equipment. That has to be fixed first.

Then and only then can another terminal around NY City be considered.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:1) 4 sets for an NY area-Sanford operation.

Any possibility of through cars from the current train? Have some cars continue north from Lorton while the rest are unloaded. Have a NY segment arrive from the north in time for the Lorton departure? That would reduce the need for additional complete sets.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:2) 22hrs on the train when "overnight is enough" for the clientele.

The current overnight is 17 hours. With people complaining about a 10 hour drive before or after their AutoTrain trip perhaps the clientele would rather spend five more hours on a train?

The biggest problem I see is the timing of the loading process. Assuming the NYC segment would depart at 10AM to arrive in time to join the Lorton segment for a 4PM departure. "Last vehicle accepted" 90 minutes before departure in Lorton would place the deadline at 8:30am in NYC. If the traffic problems are between NYC and Lorton moving north could help. Otherwise finding a terminal area in the NYC area that avoids the worst traffic could be a challenge.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Lorton is in a position to draw traffic from anywhere along the Corridor, and some inland locations as well without any kind of "double back".

It would be interesting to see statistically from where the Auto Train is drawing. If the statistics show a large number of passengers coming from NYC or north of NYC an extension could serve those passengers.

Isn't anyone doing any math? 17 hours existing plus 5 more hours traveling to New York equals 22 hours. 90 minutes added for loading the autos onto the Autoracks in New York only leaves 30 minutes left in the day to switch and fuel the train in Lorton. What about the 90 minutes needed to unload the train?

Is it possible? Yes, if the Autoracks can be both unloaded and unloaded in 90 minutes?
Is it practical for an everyday service to remain on time day after day after day? NO!!!!!!

And that's assuming the train can travel Lorton, VA to New York, NY in 5 hours.
A Silver Service train can in 5.5 hours (Fredericksburg to Penn Station), but it can reach speeds of 125 mph on the NEC. Autoracks will probably have a speed limit of 79 mph, making the Auto Train limited to the same speed. The Auto Train will not be able to make it in 5 hours.

Then we must consider that the Autoracks and Superliners used on the Autotrain don't fit within the NEC tunnels.
So extending the Auto Train to New York can't be done as is.

electricron wrote:Isn't anyone doing any math? 17 hours existing plus 5 more hours traveling to New York equals 22 hours. 90 minutes added for loading the autos onto the Autoracks in New York only leaves 30 minutes left in the day to switch and fuel the train in Lorton. What about the 90 minutes needed to unload the train?

PLEASE go back and read and you will see that I suggested six hours between departure at NYC and departure at Lorton. Plenty of time for the NYC-Stanford cars to be added to the Lorton-Stanford cars (no unloading of NYC cars in Lorton). The math was done. Reading is fundamental.

If the train can't make it in five hours what does it hurt if it runs in six? As long as the schedule allows for transit to Lorton and coupling to the train. An earlier load time may help people avoid the NYC morning rush hour. Feel free to adjust the math.

electricron wrote:And that's assuming the train can travel Lorton, VA to New York, NY in 5 hours.

The time depends on where the NYC end of the run is placed. Lorton is just south of DC ... so pick a place just south of NYC. New Brunswick, NJ? That would cut just over three hours off of the driving. (Probably not the worst three hours, but read my previous post. That was one of my questions.) Picking a good northern end would be one of the keys of making any northern extension a success.

electricron wrote:Then we must consider that the Autoracks and Superliners used on the Autotrain don't fit within the NEC tunnels.

Only if the tunnels are used. It would be easier to use an existing Amtrak route but not impossible to find another way.

justalurker66 wrote:It would be interesting to see statistically from where the Auto Train is drawing. If the statistics show a large number of passengers coming from NYC or north of NYC an extension could serve those passengers.

Some of the people I met were from New York City, "the farthest east tip of Long Island", Staten Island, Connecticut, Harrisburg, somewhere else in PA, upstate New York, Hartford, Queens, and at least one more Bostonian.

The "working" given is the NY cars would be on the CSX freight route to NJ,not the NEC.
This is a "pipe dream" for now untill a 3rd gen of Superliners is built along with the auto carriers.
Remember the original Auto Train Corp tried to extend service toward Chicago,that DID NOT go well.
It's unknown if the Chargers can run straight air brakes,as is done on the Auto Train.
I could see a 2nd section on the original route during peak times at best,if CSX(and EHH)with Amtrak can somehow agree to that.

Backshophoss wrote:The "working" given is the NY cars would be on the CSX freight route to NJ,not the NEC. This is a "pipe dream" for now untill a 3rd gen of Superliners is built along with the auto carriers. Remember the original Auto Train Corp tried to extend service toward Chicago,that DID NOT go well.

The most reasonable Auto Train terminal for a Northeast extension would likely be in NJ, somewhere along CSX and not far off I-95. There is a huge auto facility in North Bergen/Ridgefield, perhaps a platform and several loading ramps could be built.

If there is a future demand for a Midwest Auto Train, I would think Pittsburgh/Cleveland area would be a choice for the northern terminus. CLE metro area is driving distance from many major cities (Detroit, Toledo, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, among others) and not too far west. Also Toronto is driving distance, and could appeal to Canadians from southern Ontario.

I have an alternative(Pipe dream I know BUT), What about a complete different service partnering with one of the Class 1 big boys CSX or other. Once a week from a few locations Amtrak collects car's and ship's them to Florida and Arizona from northern destinations on CSX freight train. One in New England, one in Chicago or Michigan and one on the west coast. Shipping them on CSX and Amtrak to take the passengers on there normal route. They could rent the auto racks from CSX and have CSX deliver the Rack's at a predetermine place. Amtrak to handle the loading and unloading of auto racks. Down side is the car and passenger will not arrive together but this could increase services to costumers and CSX. and if Amtrak is helping generate income for CSX maybe there would be more corporation between the two on other projects.

What I remember hearing about Amtrak considering a "West Coast Auto Train" from a few Amtrak employees was that they were looking for the same pattern of travel you find with the current Auto Train: a snowbird route. The consensus was that its eastern terminus would be described as in the Chicago metro area (I don't even know where you could put a facility...) and its western terminus would be in Flagstaff, AZ. That was picked because well, the state alone is a popular snowbird destination itself (hello Sun City) and its an acceptable drive to various west coast points like Los Angeles and Las Vegas.