All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Suburban Station wrote:

David Benton wrote:So if there's no seats left , and a person who has a reservation gets on at the same time as a person who does not have a reservation , who gets the last seat ?

anyone who gets on Harrisburg east is unreserved. technically, if you buy a ticket to ny it's unreserved to philly and reserved to nyp. at some point they should probably go unreserved all the way to ny outside of rush hour

Unfortunately, that's not what the general public thinks when they have a reservation. This is particularly true when the policy states that only travel wholly between PHL-HAR is unreserved. People traveling with reservations outside the limits demand their seat for the entire trip. It is only a problem if a standee condition arises, which as predicted, has occurred.

It is being addressed soon.

As for the search function, there used to be a thread but it seems to have disappeared along with a lot of other posts in the general forum.

ThirdRail7 wrote:...Unfortunately, that's not what the general public thinks when they have a reservation. This is particularly true when the policy states that only travel wholly between PHL-HAR is unreserved. People traveling with reservations outside the limits demand their seat for the entire trip. It is only a problem if a standee condition arises, which as predicted, has occurred.

If the Pennsylvanian had more seats it wouldn't be as much of an issue. It is complicated, Keystones should probably go unreserved all the way to NY Penn. Rather than half unreserved and half reserved all trains should be unreserved, the pennsylvanian should not be used as a plug for the keystone schedule anyway.

I took it recently from Pittsburgh to Philly. The Pittsburgh to Harrisburg section is absolutely beautiful! The scenery must be spectacular in the fall. I would love to be the Engineer on that route with all the scenery I'm sure he's not sightseeing though. Pretty tough territory with all those grades and "S" curves. There were long sections of 30mph or less. You can go much faster in the car at times. We picked up speed from Harrisburg to Philly. I guess because the tracks there are owned by Amtrak and are better maintained.

The tracks and overhead electrical catenary between Harrisburg and Philly have been restored to higher speeds once again. "Electric powered" service runs via the Keystone trains between Harrisburg, Philly, and NYC, with speeds between Harrisburg and Philly reaching 110 mph in some parts. Amtrak also owns the tracks!

So this means the Pennsylvanian - even with diesel power - can run with higher speeds. West of Harrisburg it's freight running traffic with Norfolk Southern and the scenery is spectacular during all seasons, especially fall. There are a few private car runs using the Pennsylvanian in the summer for passengers to enjoy the fall foliage. Bennett Levin even brings out his own E-8's and restored vintage cars to traverse the line, or hook up the cars to the back of the Pennsylvanian.

The PRR had plans to electrify all the way to Altoona, but it never materialized. Not sure if they would have straightened out some of the track as well. Being freight owned west of Harrisburg NS is content with the line as it is. Conrail and NS did upgrade the railroad a lot west of Harrisburg, as did Amtrak east of Harrisburg. David Gunn and the State of PA were largely behind getting the "all electric power" restored on this line.......

What would be nice is a morning departure and then a late afternoon departure from NYC and Pittsburgh respectively. The line could use and grow from a second train west of Harrisburg.

And then there are still plans out there to make it a high speed line between Philly and Pittsburgh............

I rode the Pennsylvanian back in 1983 when it was still "second fiddle" to the Broadway Limited. I have also driven the PA-Turnpike many times.

You have to realize that despite its power in the 19th century, the Pennsy did not have the resources to build through the Appalacians. They did their best following the Juniata River and keeping grades at a minimum. Despite this they created a spectacular piece of railroad, capped by the horseshoe curve. A competing line, the Southern Pennsylvania, was choked off by the PRR, since it had begun to attack the mountains with tunnels, and would have drawn traffic from the winding PRR main. Partially completed tunnels sat idle for years before becoming part of the Turnpike.

The NYC's Water Level Route traded lesser grades for more boring scenery, but was the winner on speed with its 20'th Century Limited. Today, both the Broadway and the 20'th Century are gone, though the Pennsylvanian still is a worthwhile ride. Alas, the Water Level Route now hosts the Late, Slow Limited, which CSX seems to take pride in delaying, while the alternate west of Pittsburgh is the Cardinal. I would love to see service through Pittsburgh restored.

During the early 2000s, I took several trips on the Philadelphia-to-Chicago version of the Pennsylvanian.

Each time, the lineup seemed headed for the scrapyard: one beat-up Amfleet coach, one equally battered Horizon coach, one Amfleet cafe car with zero customers, plus a lengthy string of Amtrak material handling cars tacked on at the end.

During one summer trip between Cleveland and Chicago, there were no more than seven passengers on board at any given time. Plus a crew straight out of Night of the Living Dead.

After nightfall, I spent several hours sitting totally alone in the deserted Horizon coach. All the interior lights were off (including the safety lights), The only illumination came from the full moon, passing towns and industrial sites, and the lightning bugs outside the window.

This surely violated several dozen Federal regulations. But it was definitely spooky fun -- a train straight out of a Stephen King novel or Twilight Zone episode. Especially when I stepped off the train at Toledo to stretch my legs in the dead of night, and heard Elvis' "Blue Moon" come wafting along the empty platform.

We arrived in Chicago more than four hours late. Union Station had apparently closed for the night and was completely deserted.

Needless to say, this only enhanced the overall creepiness of the trip. It was the best journey I've ever taken in coach.

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I rode the entire length of the route back in autumn of 2008. It is quite scenic. Back then the train had the half cafe, half business class car with 2-1 leather seating but no longer. Here are some vids I shot from on board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Mzk_FlnUQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qav-2JkJ-M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMCQ9q7nJJQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLPG434-Pc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ianC5vi_qTE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On that third one, I remember my GPS receiver indicating about 75 mph. They do get up to 79 mph in a few spots west of Harrisburg, but of course being a curvy mountainous route, the average speed is much lower. On the Philly - Harrisburg segment, we topped out around 95 mph despite the speed limit being 110, I guess due to the slower acceleration of the P42. The changeover between electric and diesel is still handled in Philly for the Pennsylvanian despite the wires running out to Harrisburg.

I also remember taking it years ago from NYP to Harrisburg.The 2+1 business class was nice. Took the trip again last month, but now you get a standard business class coach.

EastCleveland wrote:During the early 2000s, I took several trips on the Philadelphia-to-Chicago version of the Pennsylvanian.

Each time, the lineup seemed headed for the scrapyard: one beat-up Amfleet coach, one equally battered Horizon coach, one Amfleet cafe car with zero customers, plus a lengthy string of Amtrak material handling cars tacked on at the end.

During one summer trip between Cleveland and Chicago, there were no more than seven passengers on board at any given time. Plus a crew straight out of Night of the Living Dead.

After nightfall, I spent several hours sitting totally alone in the deserted Horizon coach. All the interior lights were off (including the safety lights), The only illumination came from the full moon, passing towns and industrial sites, and the lightning bugs outside the window.

This surely violated several dozen Federal regulations. But it was definitely spooky fun -- a train straight out of a Stephen King novel or Twilight Zone episode. Especially when I stepped off the train at Toledo to stretch my legs in the dead of night, and heard Elvis' "Blue Moon" come wafting along the empty platform.

We arrived in Chicago more than four hours late. Union Station had apparently closed for the night and was completely deserted.

Needless to say, this only enhanced the overall creepiness of the trip. It was the best journey I've ever taken in coach.

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I rode the Pennsylvanian also between Pittsburgh and Philly when it ran out to Chicago. However, that's not the Pennsylvanian of today.......running between Pittsburgh and NYC. It runs with Amfleets and has expanded its consist over the years.

The south penn was killed by he Morgan who did not want to see the pennsy and ny central compete head to head. He forced them into an agreement not to compete in their home markets and the lone was abandoned and later used for the turbpike. Had it been built it would have easily been the best route to chicago.
I firmly agree that the route needs at least a morning and late afternoon train in each direction. Despite the ever increasing prices and slow ride it does decent business and usually shows up on time...if one train went to chicago all the better.
P42 s don't have the hp. You'd need two of them to get up to speed. Lastly the routes biggest problem is contrails over rationalization which ripped out the passenger tracks

Western Pennsylvanians for Passenger Rail (WPPR) is advocating an increase in Pittsburgh-NYC service along the route of the Pennsylvanian. Our proposal discussing the benefits and costs of operating three daily trains, On Track to Accessibility, is posted, along with many other items and articles, on WPPR's website, http://www.wpprrail.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Please visit the website, and/or contact us at [email protected] to be added to our mailing list.

From what I have heard if there were platforms on both sides of the track from Harrisburg - Pittsburgh then an additional train(s) and Pennsylvanian could operate on the route much easier.

My wife and I rode it in the early 1980's between Philly and Altoona then back the same day, spending a few hours at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona. It was fall and very scenic with the foliage, one of my favorite rides. Not speedy, there was a lot of padding in the schedule resulting in long dwell times at the stations.

Jon

Being able to use platforms on both sides of the tracks between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh would make it easier to schedule additional passenger service along the Pennsylvanian route because the movement of freight trains would improve.

I was out in Pittsburgh back in 2006 or 2007 and took it back to Connecticut.