All Things Empire Builder

After finally reading through the press release, it seems that it amounts to this:

Free champagne for sleepers on departure

A waiter on the upper level of the lounge car, which has had a slight rearrangement of the seating (as opposed to "at-seat" service in the coaches, which I couldn't understand how they were going to do anyway)

Wine and Cheese for sleepers on the 2nd day in the lounge car (presumably on the lower level, and the upstairs waiter will take care of snack and bar needs)

Special menu items that reflect regional foods, Great Northern heritage, blah, blah, blah....

Refurbished equipment with upgraded bathrooms.

A cookie for sleepers at bedtime.

More National Park guides

If they can pull it off, and it seems modest in scope, it sounds like a doable plan to me. And they should be commended for launching a program on one line and working out the kinks, as opposed to some of the other initiatives they've tried (i.e. the new logo fiasco)

As for the talk of increased rates, well "We" wanted it run like a business, eh?

I applaud any attempt to upgrade LD service, which has been very shabby indeed since Mr. Warrington stopped the heavy overhauls in the late 1990s. But does anybody remember the sleeper amenities of the Claytor years? Wine and cheese in every room, "First Class" stationery (I still have some), route guides, and red "Amtrak" hangers in the closet. That all vanished more than a decade ago.

Meantime, fares have gone up and up. Some work by economists as far back as 1997 suggested that Amtrak may have "maxed out" its fares (price elasticity had reached the point that further increases actually *reduced* total revenue). I doubt that's changed, especially with the new era of low-fare airlines. So I question whether amenities as described will enable Amtrak to raise more revenue.

I know that, when I priced a round-trip from PHL to OAK in 2003, the train was vastly more expensive than air (about triple), if I booked in sleeper. I would like to take my kids on an LD train -- but not for that kind of price differential.

I certainly agree with the sentements being expressed on this thread.

I wish the coach experience could be improved. Champaign-type happy hour toasts and wine tasting would strike me as being of enjoyment to a lot of coach passengers. Perhaps instead of offering them to sleeping car passengers for free, an admission fee could be charged and all passengers invited. Also, it would seem to me that bed-time treats could be made available to all passengers without driving Amtrak into bankruptcy any faster than Amtrak's own board of directors might otherwise be inclined if left to their own druthers.

At the end of the day, however, I very appreciate points that have been by correspondents, such as Mr. Carterb, that Amtrak would do well to introduce a sleeping car product that is priced at a point that would sell more widely to the mainstream traveling public.

I don't blame Amtrak for charging what it does for its current sleeping car product, assuming, of course, that it can demonstrate that its current prices are indeed maximizing revenue for the limited sleeping car inventory that it has to offer. The long term goal, however, should be to make long distance train travel more attractive to the mainstream traveling public.

As I see it, mainstream use translates to mainstream political support. I could be wrong, but I don't think Woof support is going to be enough to save Amtrak's long hauls.

The hangers, wine & cheese boxes, stationary, etc of yesterday was all inventory that had to be accounted for, and is a drain on the bottom line. This stuff is much more "cheap and cheerful" and is focused more on labor and rolling stock. The Cheese, Wine, Champagne, etc that they will be providing will presumably be acquired either gratis or at deep promotional discount. The cookies cost next to nothing.

I suppose that Amtrak will know when they've maxed out sleeper fares when they can't sell the rooms anymore, but like everyone else in the travel industry, anything considered "premium" will continue to be priced as high as they dare. Personally, I would like to see a subsidy that allowed for more sleeping car stock and lower prices, but that's not in the stars right now.

One thing that I particularly like about this plan is that with two lounge attendants there will (again, presumably) be full coverage all day long, with no closing for meal breaks - they can cover for each other.

I would not fall over dead if I learned the state tourism or agricultural departments were cutting a deal with Amtrak to supply them with the cookies, wines, and cheeses. Can you say "finding pots of money"? Uh-huh.

On a tangent to this thread, having sleeping cars refurbished is nice, but having enough of them to go around would be nicer. Which is why I started the thread about where Amtrak might scrounge more of them.

well im disappointed to see that at seat service to coach customers , means at seeat service if your sitting in the lounge car .
I thought they meant the coach attendant would take your order and bring it to you from the cafe car . that would certainly increase sales significantly .

You either like traveling first class by overnight train (and have the time and money to do it) or you don't. It's doubful that anyone has ever decided against taking Amtrak simply because there were no free cookies at bedtime.

With that said, I can't see how offering a "complimentary" glass of cheap champagne (and a few cubes of cheese) will magically entice vast numbers of train-allergic Americans into traveling by rail instead of flying. Or convince them that they should pay even more for the experience the next time around.

Make the trains arrive on time. Run them more frequently. Keep the cars and the stations clean. Reward the good employees and fire the bad ones. Impossible as some of this may be, it's the only way to significantly increase ridership.

The latest "enhancements" are simply the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while a brass band plays.

What he said.

John Perkowski

EastCleveland wrote:
Make the trains arrive on time. Run them more frequently. Keep the cars and the stations clean. Reward the good employees and fire the bad ones. Impossible as some of this may be, it's the only way to significantly increase ridership.

"Make the trains arrive on time. Run them more frequently. Keep the cars and the stations clean. Reward the good employees and fire the bad ones. Impossible as some of this may be, it's the only way to significantly increase ridership."


Actually, in Amtrakland at least, that's what is going on with the Empire Builder: It's one of the best performing, time-wise. By almost everyone's accounts, it tends to have better employees (and since the crews are now going to be based out of Seattle, it will have even better . Most all of the major stations are either already nice (Chicago and Portland) or are being fixed up (Seattle and Milwaukee) and most of the "minor" stations are already pretty nice. Plus it's getting the "cream of the crop" of the Superliners.

As far as the service "upgrades" sure, it's not much. But as I said before, at least they are trying to do something nice while acting in a fiscally responsible manner, as opposed to stationary, gift baskets, wine glasses, etc.

There's plenty to criticize about Amtrak without hen-housing attempted improvements.

CarterB wrote:The "WOOF"s win again!! The rest of us have to settle for Jet Blue.

Nobody "settles" for JetBlue. Around these parts, it has become the airlines of choice, especially for travel to Florida, by providing excellent service at fair prices.

As for the Empire Builder, I'm glad anytime Amtrak makes service improvements. No, they aren't going to get business travelers to make their next trip to Seattle by rail nor will it get budget-conscious families on vacation to give up their car.

What they will do is generate positive word of mouth, and that what will hopefully put more fannies in the seats. During the 1950s and 1960, the three railroads that partnered on the original California Zephyr relied heavily on word-of-mouth advertising to promote that train. They called it America's "most talked-about train," and the strategy worked.

Now if Amtrak would only do something to improve service on the Empire Corrirdor, as well as on the Empire Builder.

I am definitely for upgrading any or all LD trains especially after how they were downgraded during the Warrington years.

Re: "Nobody 'Settles' for JetBlue"

Indeed.

According to JetBlue's website:

"JetBlue serves complimentary juices, soft drinks, coffee and snacks on all flights. JetBlue does not serve meals. Cocktails are $4.00, and beer and wine are $3.00 on all flights."

If Amtrak's Empire Corridor passengers could only be so lucky. But Mr. Carterb's larger point is well taken. There was a time in the not too distant past when JetBlue's service paled in comparison to Amtrak's. Those days are gone.

Flight Attendants are required by the Federal Government, and their primary function is safety of the passengers. Therefore, the beverage service is provided because beverage sales offset the cost of the flight attendant labor, which is an unavoidable cost. You'll notice that they don't serve food - that's because food is regarded an an unnecessary expense.

If the requirement for flight attendants were to go away, so would the beverage service because it doesn't make any money. You might see one bartender on the longer flights, but that would be it.

Amtrak is not bound by the same federal requirement, so they cut the food service to cut costs. Like any other business, they have to meet a payroll. They can't just provide a service and hope for the best when they run out of money. They've done that before, and it wasn't well received.

I'm not excusing this - if it were up to me, we'd have a sensible transportation policy with a sufficient subisdy for passenger rail so that states wouldn't have to pony up for extra service. We'd also have national health care, so that companys would not have to shoulder that particularly expensive burden, which impacts employment and service levels in this country, but we haven't quite evolved to that point yet.

But the main point is - Airlines have beverage service because they have an unavoidable labor cost, not particualarly because they regard it as a service.

Amtrak is holding a contest with empire builder related prizes. Including roundtrip sleeper accomidations and a 2-night stay in Chicago, Portland or seattle. More info here

Thanks! I entered.