All Mistakes Made By The LIRR Through The Years

Currentely I think that the LIRR should have never discontinued "loop service" from FBAsta -> PENNsta

also a mistake was the removel of the connection from CLP- HC- MIN/OB

then as I see as there biggest loss in commuter and some freight revenue was the total distruction of the central line. (with the higher gass prices prodected this summer central line would really rack in the money).

(Equpt mistakes are welcome too).

Let's not forget the abandonment of ALL their lines as well:

Bridgehampton-Sag Harbor (plenty of tourist service today, a financial loss ending in 1939)

Port Jefferson to Wading River (plenty of ridership today. a financial loss then in what were then undeveloped areas, ending in 1938)

Whitestone Branch (plenty of residential ridership today, a financial loss in what were then undeveloped areas, ending in 1932)

Manhattan Beach Branch (Would have rivaled the transit system with the growth of Brooklyn, a financial loss in what were then still undeveloped areas, ending in 1924)

etc., etc.

We all have 20/20 hindsight, but remember one thing: the railroad's managment did what they thought best AT THE TIME to conserve money in what were still hard times. They were in business to make revenue and cap losses, not to cater to us railfans!

With the exception of the Manhattan Beach Branch (1924), all the other lines were abandoned during the Depression years (and yes, 1938-39 still counted officially as the Great Depresssion, which did not officially end until we were at war in 1941.)

On the flip side, the only exception I can come up with to this is the abandonment and IMMEDIATE removal of the Manorville-Eastport branch in 1949. I've heard all sorts of stories from veteran railroaders of the LIRR's rush to remove the tracks.

Had the railroad not been in such a rush, they may have been able to revive it in later years. (They weren't in such a rush to remove the tracks from the Rockaway Beach Branch and most of them are still there today, albeit unusable!)

Dave Keller

Abandonment of Whitestone, Wading River, Sag Harbor, Manorville-Eastport, WH-CLP-Mineola, CRRLI(from now Shea Stadium to Babylon, including all spurs except Babylon Dock), Manhattan Beach, Atlantic Av, and Rockaway all were horrible mistakes. Fortunately, some can be brought back with little or no change, while others are lost.

Biggest boo- boo??????
Hands down, not hiring me in 1977. (rim shot with drum)

Hmmm...not building the bridge to New England, not preserving an H-10, trying to design a locomotive instead of purchasing "off the rack", not hiring me in 1978, buying EMD GP38-2s, taking the 244 engines out of the FA's, Not hiring me in 1982, tearing out the rail at the Greenport yard, not hiring me in 1984, '85 or '86, closing the Setauket and Flowerfield stations, hiring me in 1988 but I was already working for Conrail so who cared anyway after that, buying those C-3s or what ever they are (or were), high platforms at Victorian era stations, DM, DE locomotives. Need I say more?

Not buying the first group of C420's, 200-221, when the lease was up in '76-'77 and sending 222-229 to be scrapped and not making them available for sale. There are several Alco-powered shortlines in N.Y.S., and the Arkansas & Missouri, which is a predominantly C420-powered road.

Holding on to some of the GP38s and the passenger cars. Parlor cars for the summer Montauk runs. Any of the freight business. Most of all - it's own idenity, not just a part of the MTA like painting locos back to earlier colors. And lasty not hiring me in 1978!

Mike

This is going exatily how I planed.

Though many ROW's were abandonend in the 30's due to the depression, after the war the RR should of premoted more rail travel. During the 50's they should of re built the PJ-WADRIV and possibily a new line from WADRIV-RIVHD.

Sag Harbor, is the row still intact? not so shure. However that would definatily have brought more revenue. (dont the MTA like $$$$ since they always raise the fairs. )

Also the LIRR should of restored a bunch of parlor cars and a bar car or 2 for the cononball express over the summer.

How "AWSOM" would it be to see some GP38's and parlors painted into the LIRR 60's scheme for use on the "CANNONBALL"

Another mistake made with the "NEW" Equpt. Is that there are NO
Barcar(s). In todays world they would be called "cell lounges" I say that that cars like that on every revenue train would be great caus it would give thoes commuters who think they "OWN" the car & run their office out of the train a place to do that business and not bother others.

DAMMM Aint it just friggen annoying as hell when u here a whole convo on some ones nextell and or any other cell device.

I agree with Nimby regarding the Whitestone branch. I feel that if it where still in operation it would take a lot of pressure of the very overcrowded Port Wash Branch.
However I feel the bigger mistake was closing the Rockway Beach Branch. How much easier would it have been to provide service to JFK via that branch then the current Airtrain? (I know we beat the S out of this in the old forum). And it would have provide the Holy Grail of commuters: "The One Seat Ride" to JFK. Of course there was no way to anticipate that when the branch was closed.

Wading River Branch usage would have been huge now. If that still existed, the volume of passengers, I surmise, would have seen electric service run the entire branch by now.

Getting rid of "Dashing Dan"

Wow, there are so many to choose from. Here are some of my favorites in no particular order:

Not privatizing freight when the MTA first took over in the 60's(what does a government agency know about running a for profit business?)

Giving into NIMBY and political pressure and closing the Mineola Garden City Freight yard(Thank You Governor Pataki!)

The wholesale destruction of victorian stations in Suffolk County in the early 60's

Not saving historical equipment such as a H-10, C-Liner(considering that they went and purchased Alco FA's6 years after scrapping the F-M's)
Alco C420 Hi-Ad(L-2)absolutely no excuse for this one!

Building C-1's C-3's DE/DM FL9ac

Not saving the C-1's and FL9ac's for Hamptons service

Re: Whitestone Branch - I feel that this branch, if kept open, would have probably been sold to the NYCTA in the 1940s/1950s (ala Rockway Branch, or the Dyre Ave/NYWB), and probably would be running as an extension of the 7 line.

Re: Privatized Freight Service in the 1950s - coming from a perspective of well after the 1970s/1980s, this makes perfect sense, but from a perspective of well before that time, was a seperate operating company for freight on a major passenger line (remembering that the PRR was still in the picture at this time) a reasonable concept (I'm sure some Interurbans had done something like seperate Operating companies before than, but what about on the 'steam' railroads). Now, by the late 70s this concept was certainly known (think Amtrak and Conrail on the NEC, for example) and this would have been a good time to privatize the freight business, as opposed to actively driving it away.

There was a proposal in 1928 to transfer the Whitestone branch to the subway, but that proposal fell through for some reason

Biggest mistakes:

#1 - Abandoning the Central Branch between Garden City and Bethpage Junction. This could have seved Levittown and East Meadow, two of the biggest communities in Nassau County, thus taking pressure off the station at Hicksville and the Huntington trains. Also, with electrification, the Ronkonkoma trains could have been rerouted to run via the Central, also taking pressure off the Main Line.

#2 - Abandoning the Rockaway line over Jamaica Bay. This could have provided direct one-seat service from NYP to JFK Airport, instead of the stupid Sky Train, which requires a change at Jamaica. Also, elimination of LIRR service to the Rockaway contributed to the area's transformation into a slum instead of a desirable oceanfront suburb.

#3 - Not purchasing FL-9s instead of C-420s, which would have enabled direct service to NYP from the Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson, Greenport and Montauk lines. This also would have avoided the need to electrify to Huntington and Ronkonkoma.

#4 - Not expanding East End service. Montauk Highway is a disaster in the summer, and the LIRR is missing an opportunity to provide shuttle service that could get some of this traffic off the roads. A related missed opportunity was the failure to buy surplus Heritage sleepers and/or 44-seat leg rest coaches when Amtrak sold them off in the mid-1990s in order to use them for premium service to the East End.

#5 - Not following through on plans to access Lower Manhattan via a connection to IRT at Atlantic Terminal; you can see the plans at www. aRRtsarchives.com. Alternatively, abandoning direct service circa 1917 to Lower Manhattan via the Williamsburgh Bridge to the Chambers St. station near the Federal Courthouse.

#6 - Choosing a technology for the DE-30 locomotives and C-3 bilevel coaches that makes them incompatible with virtually everyone other passenger rolling stock in the country.

#7 - Not converting to 11,000 volt AC overhead catenary, which is more efficient and safer, when the Pennsy did in the 1930s. Obviously this was the Pennsy's call.

not hiring me in... :- )