Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2012

This is indeed good news, with the enthusiasm of the Adirondack Scenic and the resources of Iowa Pacific hopefully combined will result in something a lot more positive than what has been in the past few years. I have maintained on here for quite some time that the Adiorndacks is where tourist train service could do well in New York State and I hope this works out. I would love for an opportunity to ride both of these interesting and very scenic rail lines again, I have done them both but years ago.
Noel Weaver

"I dont think you'll find much sympathy for the Thompson's on here, if that's your intent." No sympathy here either...I'm just a simple miner of information that enjoys putting all the tidbits of information gathered to formulate a solid opinion, nothing more or less....

I may have missed this in the article, but are we talking a full blown IPH train originating in NY city via trackage rights on CSX or just the IPH owned pullman cars tacked onto the back of Amtrak and handed off at Utica (like one would do with a private car)?

Just curious.

The Pullman service offered by Iowa Pacific is their private cars hauled on the rear of regularly scheduled Amtrak trains. I assume that any service to Lake Place would require the cars to be switched out at Utica and hauled by ADIX to Lake Placid. From my understanding, that would require there to be an Amtrak car inspector on site at Utica and possibly an Amtrak switch crew and Amtrak switch locomotive (not sure the Amtrak road crew is allowed to make set-offs en route).

I may have this all backwards. No coffee yet.

You guys are watching the weather right? Hurricane Sandy meets winter storm from the west.

I am quite sure Amtrak road crews are allowed to make set-outs and do switching en route. The Empire Builder split at Sandpoint doesn't have a separate ground crew IIRC. The proposed Pennsylvanian-Capitol Limited through cars were going to be be set out and attached by the road crews. In some locations Amtrak has its own ground crews and in some it contracts with freight companies for ground crews, but there are definitely other places where the road crew does the switching.

There may be additional requirements coming from CSX, of course, which isn't involved in either of those examples (or any of the other examples I can think of).

And I don't know much of anything about the requirements relating to private cars; perhaps an Amtrak car inspector would be required at Utica. Perhaps Amtrak might authorize someone from Iowa Pacific, which is quite reputable at this point, to do the inspections. It certainly seems that *some* additional work will be necessary to get Utica onto Amtrak's list of places where it will move private cars, since it's not on that list now.

Here's a great 12:00 minute news human interest story on WNBZ. A decent radio news human interest story like I used to do back in the day: If you have 12 minutes; it's wrth it. Also there is a couple moments regarding S&NC. Should this be posted over there too?

http://www.wnbz.com/blog/2012/10/26/the ... s-numbers/

While who really knows what could happen in the future if this plan of "Pullmans to Placid" gets started, back in 1999 there was an Amtrak Excursion that ran out of Albany Rensselaer to Thendara. The ADK Scenic pilot crew was on-board at Albany and the train was routed up the North control siding and onto the Lyons Falls main and never stopped at Utica that I recall, just rolled up through.

There are probably numerous ways to work through this and with some creativity made very possible. I remember when the SNC was starting up and there were many naysayers predicting doom and gloom when IPH proposed running into and out of the Saratoga Springs Amtrak over the D&H. They pulled it off without the sky falling, so who knows what possibilities are out there.

K4Pacific wrote:Here's a great 12:00 minute news human interest story on WNBZ. A decent radio news human interest story like I used to do back in the day: If you have 12 minutes; it's wrth it. Also there is a couple moments regarding S&NC. Should this be posted over there too?

http://www.wnbz.com/blog/2012/10/26/the ... s-numbers/

Thanks K4. That was a good listen. ADIX has its act together.

I attended the event at the Saranac Lake Depot. There was a wonderfull turn out in support the railroad. The free train ride was very near full as well. The Adirondack Scenic indeed has it's act together, despite seeming on the quiet side.

Thanks for posting that, K4.....all great news!I wonder if our friend Tony Goodwin knows about
this. Anybody seen Tony? I wouldn't want him to not know about these great things!!

Hey Tony?

TONY??

(Sound of crickets chirping)

Yes, I'm still here and, no, I don't hide behind a screen name because I am never ashamed of what I post. This last week has produced much news on which to comment, so here goes. The restored Pullman proposal will require a complete restoration of the tracks to Lake Placid. The reported cost of the current restoration of the tracks from Carter Station to Big Moose (politicians take note - truly a train from nowhere to nowhere) clearly shows that the DOT web site estimate of $43 million for restoration is much closer to the truth for restoration costs than the Stone Consultants estimate of $16 million. Neither ASR or IPH has even the lower figure to spend on this restoration, so how will either ASR or IPH justify that amount of governmental expenditure for merely occasional excursion service for those who can afford such service. I am sure that all readers of this forum are taxpayers. Would you vote for a $43 million dollar expenditure that would benefit only a few rich rail riders?

As for the "Train Bound For Glory Rally" as reported in the "Free Press" and the"Enterprise", I'm sure that those few Saranac Lake businesses appreciated the reported extra traffic. There was no mention, however, of any additional jobs created despite the 1994 Freight Services Incorporated study (sponsored by the ASR) that Saranac-Lake Placid excursion service would "create" 70+ new jobs. Senator Little said the the SNCRR ski train was a great success, even though it carried only about 1,500 riders during the course of the whole season. Granted that this past season was not a great snow year, but Gore Mt. has snowmaking and had perfectly acceptable skiing through most of the ski season. Driving to the Saratoga station to catch the 7AM train, but not arriving in North Creek until 9:30 not actually skiing until 10 AM is not a recipe for many repeat customers. Snow trains from Utica to Tupper Lake would, I am sure, be far less popular.

So, given that as of 1959 when the New York Central first petitioned for complete abandonment of passenger service due to less than 20 riders per train (and this was before the Northway, an improved Rt. 30, and before improved air service) why could such a service ever be profitable today?

I await you comments.

Tony - According to folks I know who were involved in the Olympic version of the Adirondack RR, ridership was over 100 on each trip right up to the bitter end (when they got shut down).

In the late 50's and early 60's, I don't think train travel and tourism were thought of as being connected. The car was the way to go. And the railroads didn't exactly promote rail travel.

If the Utica train can carry 300+ people to Thendara/Old Forge, there's no reason not to believe it can carry significant numbers of people further up the line.

Restoring service all the way up the line has a great deal more potential than turning the ROW into a trail which will end up being closed to motorized vehicles through the "Bob." I'm sure the snowmobilers will just love that.

And that trail in PA that keeps getting cited? Check out a map of it - there's a state highway parallel to the whole thing. As someone pointed out in a conversation the other day, just getting to the ROW most of the way between Big Moose and Tupper Lake is an adventure in and of itself...

If you really wanted the European Ski Crowd, it's too bad you cant restore service from Plattsburgh through Ausable down to Whiteface and connect with Lake Placid. The tourists would fly into Plattsburgh International and catch a ski train right to the Whiteface area.

Hey, if you're going to dream about $43 million from Utica to Lake Placid, you might as well dream about a shorter route.

I was born in Tupper Lake and for a bit lived near the Depot. Some of my earliest memories were of the NYC engines blaring their horns bringing both freight and passengers. I'd really love, just once, to take the train from Tupper to Placid and back....

Just a couple of comments of my own. The "train ride to nowhere" isn't , really. It might be more so if the trip actually started in Carter, but it will start, as always, in Thendara. Also, the operators of the restaurant in Big Moose probably don't consider it "nowhere", either. Just out of curiosity, not sarcasm, does the restaurant stay open year round? For the snowmobile folks, I hope so. Granted, it's only one small business, but the beginning of excursion service to Big Moose has got to increase their bottom line somewhat, and that's always good, isn't it?

Tony, do you see the rail service mainly as a means to get somewhere? That's what your thought sounds like to me. If so, I'd like to point out that the main purpose of riding the train up there is just to enjoy the ride and the scenery. Having a place to eat, ski, bike, canoe, hike or whatever along the way, or at the ends, will be icing on the cake. The skiers you mention that won't like leaving the station at 7:00, and not being able to ski until 10:00, won't want to ride the train anyway. Those who like both, should love it.

Scott K.