Abandoning the former BR&P through Orchard Park

Numerous posters in this thread made reference to quicksand. Where is that on this line?

One place was just south of the Cascade Viaduct over Cattaraugus Creek. I think it is at a place called Edies. The RR had to dump several hopper cars of fill every week to keep up with the sinking roadbed. B&O even had a watchman stationed there to keep an eye on track conditions.

Digressing a little, my uncle told me once that every RR in the state had problems with quicksand. I know the Erie River Line had problems but I haven't heard of others like PRR, LV, etc.

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1183265325

This pretty much is the nail in the coffin on service ever being resumed by the B&P...

According to a filing on the surf board, the B&P has applied for an exemption to lease the section of the BL that it currently runs via trackage rights:

"... Buffalo & Pittsburgh Railroad, Inc (BPRR) hereby gives notice of its intent to lease from Norfolk Southern Railway Company (NSR) the 35.9 mile rail line between Gracity, NY, milepost BR 8.8, and Machias, NY, milepost 44.7. BPRR currently operates over the line via overhead trackage rights. The lease is intended to be effective as of the later of August 24, 2007, or 60 days after the BPRR certifies to the Board that this notice has been posted..."

I saw that surf line request. I'm not so sure that the B&P will get it. Here's why:

It makes sense that the B&P would get it, right? I mean, NS wouldn't have to come down a little stub to interchange, right? Wrong, perhaps: NS still won't give up the stub of rails from the Pittsburgh line to Meadville. Before anyone mentions that there are some significant customers and a good interchange up there (there are) I thought there was a long stretch with nothing that could indeed be leased.

Steve Timko, or anyone else here, help out if you can.

David Becker

Okay, I'm totally confused.. how does that provide any incentive for NS NOT to lease the BL from Buffalo, NY to Machias Jct, NY to the B&P? How does the NS meadville Line effect the Buffalo Line at all?

First of all, I was using the Meadville line as an example. There is no connection, physical or otherwise, between the two.

Second of all, your first question was exactly my point: there's no reason not to lease the line. However, NS does not always do what would seem to make the most sense.

David Becker

I would hope that someone will decide to do the right thing. If NS doesn't lease it, fine...but then they need to market the line and DO something with it. The thing has been in an apathetic stranglehold for decades, starting with the PC.

That line hasn't had anyone marketing it (at least the local businesses) since the 70s'.... There are plenty of businesses that could ship - right now - but noone is paying attention, shaking hands, or giving a decent rate because it's not worth their time.....well, some of us have got more time than money.

I realize there's no huge fortune-500 potential on the line, and if NS doesn't care about the onesy-twosies, fine, but let some of us bottom-feeders get a crack at it. At least shortlines could develop enough to take a chunk out of the taxes.

1500 new cars between Buffalo & Olean isn't out of the question. I know that for a fact, but you can't get anything done without calling someone in Atlanta or Roanoke....good grief.

If B&P gets it, are they going to be allowed to market new business, and if not, what's the point?

Dont' nail that BR&P coffin too quick, now.

There seems to be some confusion over this. This is a request by the B&P to lease the line they are already using via trackage rights. No where does it say NS is against it or is being forced to do this. NS could be pushing for it. So where is the "I don't think NS will do it" coming from?

What news article or filing says NS doesn't want to do this? They just leased PA to Machias, why not the rest?

Charles

I never said they wouldn't. I never said they couldn't. Nor that they shouldn't.

I only cautioned that there's nothing to be sure that this is going to happen.

Dave Becker

B&P leasing Machias to CP Gravity is no surprise. After the WNYP transaction, the writing was on the wall. More surprised this isn't an outright purchase.

As for the original B&P between West Valley and Orchard Park - quit daydreaming folks - it's dead, gone. My guess is another petition for abandonment is forthcoming now they have the lease deal.

I was quite surprised that WNYP didnt take it all the way to Gravity and keep the trackage rights with B&P or do a shared asset deal for the line between Machias and Gravity. But, I am doubtful that the Ashford and northbound section will ever be alive again, and I am an optimist.

WNYP431 wrote:If B&P gets it, are they going to be allowed to market new business, and if not, what's the point?

Considering what NS has let WNYP and Suzie-Q do with leased sections of the former Erie mainline, I'd be willing to bet NS will allow B&P to market and handle local traffic. After all, it could mean new interchange traffic for NS in Buffalo without having to do anything to create it. Just my two cents...

I sure would hope so.

Maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

Naw, John, that's just an oncoming train!

David Becker

The original B&P definitely is making a comeback.

Signed,
The Atlanta Hawks Winning A World Championship Next Year