8th Avenue Subway Disaster

No one talking about this yet at all?:

Fire Suspends C Service

Looks like the C could be out of service for several years...

There is a long discussion of the Chambers Street problem on http://subway.com.ru

I hope the photo ban does not go into effect because of this. I am not a die hard subway photographer but I would feel sorry for all subway buffs if the ban goes into effect.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I hope the photo ban does not go into effect because of this. I am not a die hard subway photographer but I would feel sorry for all subway buffs if the ban goes into effect.

This would have nothing to do with the photoban. And yes, the photoban will go into effect anyway. They're voting on it in 3 days.

It also says that the A line will have to run via the F route in Manhattan mainly till Jay St/Boro Hall.

As for the C train consists, they will probably be freed up for other routes mainly for the A, F, maybe even the open-air D, which hasn't seen such cars (or any other pre-R68 type) since April 30, 1987.

bellstbarn wrote:There is a long discussion of the Chambers Street problem on http://subway.com.ru

Try this url:
http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=41931

Not being familiar with this part of the subway, but looking on a map this location is near the terminal of the E line, but the E line branches slightly before then. Can they reroute the C train to terminate at the old World Trade Center, or something like that?

Why is it going to take 3 - 5 years to repair the damage that was done by the fire? I'm an electrical engineer and I just don't understand how/why it could take this long.

If the damage was that extensive wouldn't it be better to just replace the entire signal system on this line now? It would seem to me that even if you took this step it shouldn't take 3 - 5 years.

It didn't take 3 to 5 years to build the entire IND. This is what is wrong with the MTA. They're taking forever to build anything. Look at Metro North 5 years to rebuild about 5 miles of track (Dover Plains to Wassaic), 3rd Track Project (Lower Harlem) also about 5 years, rebulding portions of stations 1+ years.

Perhaps the transit systems should be returned to private operators. Maybe they could get things done a lot quicker and cheaper. I used to be an advocate of government ownership of public transportation. No more.

Not being familiar with this part of the subway, but looking on a map this location is near the terminal of the E line, but the E line branches slightly before then. Can they reroute the C train to terminate at the old World Trade Center, or something like that?
_________________
Rich "Dino" Martin
A one time happy rider of Arborway and the old Washington St. El.

My reply may be inadequate: 1) The E needs to provide frequent service, and it probably is very difficult to turn two routes (C and E) on WTC two-track terminal and maintain close headway on both routes. Recall that this terminal was once named for nearby Hudson Terminal (H&M).
2) Fulton Street, Brooklyn, provides good, heavy ridership. That is why the V has been sent out there to cover for the C. Apparently, the V can get in between the F headways on the Rutgers Street tunnel, because the E and F alternate on Queens Blvd express. The problem is that the route via Broadway-Nassau lost its signals and cannot support frequent headway. Joe

Before the fire, the only late evening (after 9 PM) and weekend local train from 59th to 145th was the C. Is there now no service then, or has another train been moved to fill the gap?

Now thier saying it should only be a few months to restore service.

Subway Disruptions Expected to Last Months, Not Years

Transit officials said yesterday that service on the A and C lines could be restored to full capacity in six to nine months, substantially revising their earlier prognosis that a fire in a Lower Manhattan signaling room would disrupt service on the lines for as long as three to five years.

Full artical here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/nyreg ... ubway.html

Yes, I read this in the NY Times this morning too. I'm happy to hear that it's "only" going to take 6 - 9 months to bring back the service on this line.

But I still can't believe that the senior people went to the press on Monday with the prediction that it would take 3 - 5 years to fix the problem. How and why did that happen? Were they uniformed? Is it that the senior people are so removed from the operation (of the subway) that they have no "feeling" for what a reasonable amount of time is (to repair a problem like this?)

It's just shocking (to me) that MTA senior management could have made such ridiculous statements to begin with.

A side comment - the NY Times articles, on this topic, in today's paper (Jan 26th) are really excellent.

I think part of the problem on repair is that only 2 companies still make spare parts for the relays (and I am sure those parts cost big $$$).

The newspapers report that TA engineers have found about 90 spare relays in the system. They will use these to create a basic signaling system. That means no Wheel detectors where they have them on that section.

While I am just your average subway buff and not an electrical engineer I still know that there is a lot of wiring involved to make it all work properly.

Expect a lot of overnight & weekend G.O.s for the next 6 - 9 months.

Allan wrote:While I am just your average subway buff and not an electrical engineer I still know that there is a lot of wiring involved to make it all work properly.

You would think that somewhere that there are schematics for this bank of relays indicating what goes where somewhere in their records. I'm guessing the wiring is the easy part if they do. I would guess that finding the additional relays will be the problem. They should place a big order for these things.